BYU-I President Works to Expel Professors Like Cleon Skousen?

The Mormon Chronicle has been contacted by sources close to former BYU-I President Kim Clark administration.

The interest in the information stems from Clark’s recent talk regarding some changes to the Church Education System.

Creationists and constitutionalists are afraid to say anything.  One source said, “One of Kim Clark’s VPs declared, ‘We want no Cleon Skousens on this campus!’ ‘We’ was in reference to then President Kim Clark and his administration. For fear of retribution, the circumstances and professors involved must remain anonymous.” It is an atmosphere of fear among more traditional professors.

(update: Another witness can be found here

Also, TJ Thompson posted on the Mormon Chronicle Facebook page the following,

“I was a political science major at BYU-Idaho from 2008-2009 and 2011-2013. My entire time at BYU-I was during the Clark administration, and I have experiences in political science and economics courses that testify to what has been shared here.

One political science professor, who has since retired for health reasons, openly criticized Bruce R. McConkie for his first edition of “Mormon Doctrine.” She also kept a blog that promoted same-sex marriage and feminism. She longed for a day when gays would be married in the temple and was sympathetic to the Ordain Women movement.

Another political science professor gave students extra credit for participating in the Envision Madison project, an Agenda 21 project fiercely opposed by Rexburg locals. Most of the participants in central planning were transient students earning extra credit. This same professor also ran the political science internship program and encouraged students to take internships with the Clinton Foundation and the United Nations. Of course, the department had formed no relationships with conservative or libertarian-leaning organizations, so the university was not merely being politically balanced. They were promoting progressivism through their internship program. To make matters worse, internship “expeditions” (trips that students took to visit these places and get interviews for internships) were subsidized by the university, meaning that tithe payers subsidized trips to the Clinton Foundation, United Nations, etc., for the purpose of subjecting impressionable LDS youth to the philosophies of these organizations.

Another political science professor banned me from my senior capstone class for contradicting his liberal views on the unofficial class discussion page on Facebook. It was a page created by a fellow student to help facilitate discussion of course material. As we were studying various documents from the era of the Founding Fathers, we discussed the Constitution and the principles outlined therein. Many students and indeed even my professor took a progressive interpretation, so I challenged them with various quotes from Ezra Taft Benson. I was thereafter banned from class until I met with the college dean, who said that the professor had no authority to ban me from class for a difference of opinion. Shortly thereafter, however, the same professor was promoted to associate dean, revealing that the university was not at all dismayed that one of their own had used his power as professor to intimidate and punish a student with constitutionalist leanings.

In other political science courses, we were taught that supernational organizations like the EU were beneficial, that social democracy had its benefits, etc. These were all philosophies that previous Church authorities had publicly and repeatedly rejected.

I also took an intermediate macroeconomics course, in which the study of Keynesianism was never balanced by so much as a passing reference to the existence of the Austrian school. My professor was a former employee of the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco, Salt Lake City Branch. What should have disqualified him from teaching economics at a Church university was probably what earned him the position.

On top of that, the entire culture of the Clark era was one of unproductive discomfort. Students were encouraged to spy on their roommates and tell Priesthood leaders if their roommates were missing Church meetings or involved in unwholesome behavior. I am not suggesting that there would never be correct circumstances for informing a Church leader about disobedience, but I think those instances should be guided by the Spirit and not by direct teachings that failure to turn in a disobedient roommate could threaten your own standing at the university and in the Church. Students should be taught to treat their roommates with love, not with suspicion. It was more like Big Brother than being your brother’s keeper.

I am not saying that Kim B. Clark’s administration was a complete failure or that he accomplished nothing worthwhile. He oversaw remarkable expansion of the university and encouraged students to be disciples of Jesus Christ. I do not believe that Clark’s pervasive progressivism represents a deliberate attempt to undermine the Church’s teachings, but instead represents that the CES needs more guidance than it is currently receiving.

Let’s not forget that war criminal Dick Cheney spoke at a BYU commencement and received an honorary degree there. The entire CES has strayed from the principles by which it was created. As Hugh Nibley used to say, the Church schools are so focused on proper dress and grooming that we believe they are inherently righteous institutions. But that is only how a Pharisee would see things. In reality, the CES is in dire need of cleansing.”)

President Clark gave a couple of talks that might give insight into why he would want to rid the university of those with views similar to Skousen’s. These talks were featured prominently on BYU-I’s official website, and we include key elements of his talks that might shed light on the subject:


Listen to full audio of Kim Clark’s first presentation

Listen to the full audio of Kim Clark’s second presentation

2008 talk
Markets have become so powerful and so pervasive, that they have literally overwhelmed the governance mechanisms that were set up to govern them. Now, I love markets and I know that markets have been so important in establishing in our country and throughout the world much more prosperous and much better living conditions for people. Markets have been really wonderful. But Markets need governance. Markets are not inherently self-stabilizing, and they are not inherently self-regulating under all conditions. They need kind of a governance system that surrounds them. Not only a legal system, but a regulatory system that watches over the markets, and makes sure they continue to function effectively.

Well, we have outstripped the governance mechanisms because the markets have grown so powerful. I think our economic system has proven phenomenally successful at bringing growth, innovation, productivity and a rising standard of living to millions of people. It is an engine of progress and development un-matched in the world. But the engine has grown so complex and its capabilities so swift and powerful that it has outstripped the governance mechanisms designed in a simpler time.

Every institution of governance…has failed in the last year. Every single one. The institutions of governance have been completely overwhelmed by the power of these markets that have been created.

Now, get all the education you can. Go to school. Get educated. This is so crucial, it should be a national priority. And you’d think it would be because we know how true it is. But it’s kind of a scandal actually. It’s a scandal. It’s a total scandal that we would let the life blood of our economy go that way. It’s just not right. We ought to be willing to pay for it because it has a huge positive return to the country, to families, to individuals, but we haven’t been willing to. We just haven’t been willing to, as a society, willing to pay for it. Now we spend a lot of money on education, but we don’t spend it very well, and we don’t spend enough frankly.

QUESTION FROM AUDIENCE: What is your position on the proposed bailout for the Detroit automakers?

Clark: First of all, I would define what was under discussion in the congress not as a bailout. What it was, was how to put all these companies, well not all of them, maybe not Ford. But GM and Chrysler had put them in bankruptcy, without putting them in bankruptcy. How to have a bankruptcy workout going through the process of bankrupting them. But I think that’s what should happen. Actually I think the best way for it to happen is for the government to use the leverage of a bridge loan, to bridge them to a work out. That is basically a choose somebody whose just like a bankruptcy judge, but is not a judge, and you put him in a position where by law they have the power to get these companies restructured. It means you have to put them on a different footing and then let them compete.

QUESTION FROM AUDIENCE: As you know the Federal Reserve Bank is pursuing a very aggressive monetary policy. What is your opinion of that and what are your fears about the impact of that policy on the declining value of the dollar?

Clark: Well this is how I think about it; The Federal Reserve Bank is, by law, and by concept and by practice and tradition, the lender of last resort. And that means that we decide, and this is absolutely true, we need an institution that basically stands outside the normal fray of things and can serve as the lender, the capital market player that plays when nobody else can play. And that’s exactly what they’re doing and I applaud what they’re doing. I think it’s exactly right. The thing we need right now is to restore confidence. Think about the economy. Look, the US economy, if you strip out the current stuff, fundamentally is very strong. And what you need, is you need to restore confidence that people have in the future, that this is gunna work. We’re going to get through this, this is gunna work. And so you need somebody, and the only one that can do it is the government, you need somebody to stand up and say ‘Folks, it’s a little troubling right now, but we’re here and we will do anything it takes to get this thing moving again and is gunna work. Period.’ And that’s what they’re trying to do. And I think they’re doing it.
Basically whenever you take action, like they are taking, you get to choose which set of problems you want. Do you want the great depression X3, or do you want to have to worry about the value of the dollar? I pick worrying about the value of the dollar and let’s not have the great depression. And I think that is what Ben Bernanke is trying to do. And he’s trying to say, ‘look, we are authorized to whatever it takes to keep this baby going’, and I think that’s what he is doing.

When I was in graduate school, and as an undergraduate, we studied all about the Federal Reserve buying assets as a way of stimulating the economy. So buying bonds, buying you know, whatever they needed to do. Hey, the Federal Reserve buying bonds or even buying equity? Sure. Whatever it takes. Move that baby forward. Because then, after the economy is up and moving, then we can figure out how are you going to deal with the value of the dollar, what are we going to do. But I’d much rather worry about getting the economy moving again.

QUESTION FROM AUDIENCE: Are we all Keynesians now? Will we ever hear the name Milton Freedman again? (Audience laughs)

Clark: What’s happened is those distinctions are not very useful anymore, because it’s really clear that (and this is where the academic research has gone) is that we basically all became monetarists in the sense that we started to recognize how powerful the money supply and its associated instruments is on the economy. And today we are recognizing that that set of instruments is actually insufficient because we need visible action that to restore confidence, and you can’t do it just by tweaking the open market window or even by the Federal Reserve buying assets. There needs to be more sustained, substantial intervention. And so we are kinda all Keynesians, and so I think the government has an array of tools it can use to restore confidence and to keep the markets functioning. And it uses them, hopefully, rarely, in periods of crisis. And so I don’t think it’s all that useful of a distinction any more, and certainly from the practical standpoint of actually running the government, you’ve got to use all of the tools available to you to restore confidence, to strengthen the economy. And I think that means you take advantage of all of the insights that have come.

By the way, one footnote, what the power of what the President elect (Obama) has suggested, with his infrastructure idea, the power of that is actually not in the projects themselves. The projects are like a drop in the bucket. The US economy is like $14 trillion, or something like that. And is growing and so it’s, you know, 14 or 15 trillion, he’s talking about $600 billion over two or three years. You run those numbers out, it’s a drop in the bucket. The value is in its signal to the rest of the decision makers in the economy, ‘we are going to move forward in this country. We are gunna make it.” Now, if the right projects are done, it will be good.

We need better schools, it’s really a drop in the bucket, the real value is in the signal it sends to the rest of the decision makers.

2010 talk
I think it is fair to say over the last year, governments, really all across the world, have reacted relatively quickly, certainly compared to history. Governments have reacted relatively to replace falling demand with new spending.

It’s a testament to the power of ideas. The fact that in this, really the greatest economic crisis we’ve seen in the world, since the great depression. Governments behaved so differently than they did in the 1930’s. But all across the world governments have injected a tremendous amount of spending into the world economy. When president Obama first talked about what he thought we ought to do, I was encouraged, I mentioned this to you last year, that we had the possibility of using this crisis as an opportunity to invest in the country in ways that would have long term benefits. Particularly in things like schools, roads, R&D, infrastructure things, bridges that would really strengthen our transportation system, strengthen our education system.

Just as a footnote, my favorite stimulus program still remains building schools. It’s a little part of what’s been done, but it hasn’t been a big part.

In any case, what happened, I think for a lot of reasons, is we ended up with kind of a ‘grab bag’ of all sorts of things. Most of it was spending, and the argument was made, ‘any spending is good”. And it does have the effect of having additional spending in the economy, but in a lot of places it has rolled out very slowly and has not been targeted at things that would create new jobs. There has been, and we have to admit this, there has been an important influence of the stimulus package on the preservation of jobs. There has been that affect. But as far as really igniting the economy again and creating the basis for further economic growth, the stimulus I think has been less effective than we’d hoped.

QUESTION FROM AUDIENCE: You pointed out at the outset of your remarks that you thought Obama’s stimulus package was a good idea but it missed its part.

Clark: Yes

QUESTION FROM AUDIENCE: If you had the opportunity now to redirect stimulus funds, what would you prescribe?

Clark: I’d do a couple things. One is I’d do much less frittering of stuff, like a thousand different things, and I’d pull it together and focus on a couple things. My favorite: build schools. That’s my answer: Build schools. Invest in R&D, build roads, build bridges, put the money in construction, into research and development, into education. That’s what I would do.

QUESTION FROM AUDIENCE: A number of our listeners and people here in the audience also want to hear your remarks about the Federal Reserve. What kind of a grade would you assign to the fed over the past year, and would you re-appoint Ben Bernanke?

Clark: One of the roles of the Federal Reserve is to be the lender of last resort. Is to take action in the financial markets when the markets are in a extreme situation. And I think I give the Fed high marks, I think Ben Bernanke did a really good job in responding to the crisis and getting things done that kind of calmed the markets. But I am would give them high remarks for being the lender of last resort, because I think it was necessary to be creative and do extraordinary things in those moments. It’s after the fact, it’s very easy to go and say, ‘you know, why did they do that?’ but in those moments the world looks very different than will a year later and I think it’s not fair to go back and be like Monday morning quarterbacking, but in those moments, I give Mr. Bernanke high marks for creativity and courage to do things that really did help things. But I think Mr. Bernanke merited re-appointment.

QUESTION FROM AUDIENCE: Now we are going to put you in the role of philosopher. How much government should we have in the regulation of the economy?

Clark: Just as much as we need.


Comment: but not more than that

Clark: but not more than that. Look there is a philosophy difference. There are people, and many of them are in power now in Washington, who want the US to look like the social democracies of Europe. They want more state intervention in the economy and state control of the economy. They want to be more like France. There are other people who feel that any government involvement is terrible and there shouldn’t be any, and people should be left to do what they want, with basically reliance on the legal system to sort of set the rules, but keep the government out of it. I am somewhere in the middle. I don’t know exactly where in the middle, but I’m in the middle. That is I don’t think we want to be France, and I don’t think it’s realistic to have unfettered economic or business enterprise action without some regulation. In fact, regulation can be very positive and have a very, um, because the reality is, look, when you look back over the last forty-fifty years, the economy, a capitalist economy, based on the rule of law, with essentially free enterprise, is not self-stabilizing (said while thumping podium). It can get stuck. And it can have, bad things can happen, so regulation and the actions of government can be very, very effective and positive in maintaining sort of the rules of the game. But it can go overboard. And so we will see.

To be contrasted with:

Coming out against the official position of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as found in this letter written by the First Presidency (which constitutes doctrine)

Ezra Taft Benson explained these same principles when he said (speaking as a “watchman”)

“As a watchman on the tower, I feel to warn you that one of the chief means of misleading our youth and destroying the family unit is our educational institutions. President Joseph F. Smith referred to false educational ideas as one of the three threatening dangers among our Church members. There is more than one reason why the Church is advising our youth to attend colleges close to their homes where institutes of religion are available. It gives the parents the opportunity to stay close to their children; and if they have become alert and informed as President McKay admonished us last year, these parents can help expose some of the deceptions of men like Sigmund Freud, Charles Darwin, John Dewey, Karl Marx, John Keynes, and others.  Today there are much worse things that can happen to a child than not getting a full college education. In fact, some of the worst things have happened to our children while attending colleges led by administrators who wink at subversion and amorality.” (Ezra Taft Benson, Strengthening the Family, Conference Report, October 1970, pp. 21-25)

“The root of all evil is money, some say. But the root of our money evil is government. The very beginning of our troubles can be traced to the day when the federal government overstepped its proper defensive function and began to manipulate the monetary system to accomplish political objectives. The creation of the Federal Reserve Board made it possible in America for men arbitrarily to change the value of our money.

In our economic stupor, when we manage to think ahead about the coming hangover, we have merely taken another swig from the bottle to reinforce the artificial sensation of prosperity. But each new drink at the cup of inflation, and each new drain on the gold supply of our bodily strength does not prevent the dreaded hangover, it merely postpones it a little longer and will make it that much worse when it finally comes. What should we do? We should get a hold on ourselves, come to our senses, stop adding to our intoxication, and face the music!

When the going gets rough, we mustn’t rush to Washington and ask big brother to take care of us through price controls, rent controls, guaranteed jobs and wages. Any government powerful enough to give the people all that they want is also powerful enough to take from the people all that they have. And it is even possible that some of the government manipulators who have brought us into this economic crisis are hoping that, in panic, we, the American people, literally will plead with them to take our liberties in exchange for the false promise of “security.” As Alexander Hamilton warned about two hundred years ago: “Nothing is more common than for a free people, in times of heat and violence, to gratify momentary passions by letting into the government principles and precedents which afterward prove fatal to themselves” (Alexander Hamilton and the Founding of the Nation, p. 21). Let us heed this warning.

In our economic stupor, when we manage to think ahead about the coming hangover, we have merely taken another swig from the bottle to reinforce the artificial sensation of prosperity. But each new drink at the cup of inflation, and each new drain on the gold supply of our bodily strength does not prevent the dreaded hangover, it merely postpones it a little longer and will make it that much worse when it finally comes. What should we do? We should get a hold on ourselves, come to our senses, stop adding to our intoxication, and face the music!

When the going gets rough, we mustn’t rush to Washington and ask big brother to take care of us through price controls, rent controls, guaranteed jobs and wages. Any government powerful enough to give the people all that they want is also powerful enough to take from the people all that they have. And it is even possible that some of the government manipulators who have brought us into this economic crisis are hoping that, in panic, we, the American people, literally will plead with them to take our liberties in exchange for the false promise of “security.” As Alexander Hamilton warned about two hundred years ago: “Nothing is more common than for a free people, in times of heat and violence, to gratify momentary passions by letting into the government principles and precedents which afterward prove fatal to themselves” (Alexander Hamilton and the Founding of the Nation, p. 21). Let us heed this warning
In America, only the federal government can increase the money supply. Government can create inflation. The most common method of increasing the money supply today is by spending more than is in the treasury, and then merely printing extra money to make up the difference. Technically this is called “deficit spending.” Ethically, it is counterfeiting. Morally, it is wrong.” (Ezra Taft Benson, The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, 637-641.)

“The drift toward centralization of power is not inevitable. It can be slowed down, halted, reversed.

The thought that the federal government is wealthy and the states poverty-stricken is a dangerous illusion. The federal debt is now eight times as great as the combined debt of the forty-eight states. On June 30, 1954, state governments had invested nine billion dollars of their long range funds in federal securities.

It is difficult for the states to make a strong case for assistance from the federal government when anything the federal government spends must come from the states. There are no resources of consequence in the United States—no income of wealth which is not located within the borders of the states and subject to their taxing powers.

The states not only have rights, they have responsibilities and they have opportunities.

In the last analysis, we are not trying to protect one government entity from another. We are trying to protect the rights of individual people. If we ever forget this, the whole process of government is pointless.” (Ezra Taft Benson, 1957, E-60:306)

David O. McKay on Federal Aid to education :

(Church News Editor’s Note;—The following letter from President David O. McKay to Representative Ralph R. Harding of Idaho, sets forth the Church’s view on the subject of Federal Aid to Education, and is published by permission of the First Presidency.)

Honorable Ralph R. Harding
House of Representatives
Washington D.C.

Dear Brother Harding:

Re: Federal Aid to Education

I appreciate your letter of May 31, 1961 and the spirit in which it was written . . . .

Regarding your inquiry as to whether the Church has taken an official stand against a general program of federal aid to education as embodied in the bill already passed by the Senate, please be advised that this matter was discussed by the First Presidency and the Quorum of [p. 193] the Twelve sitting as members of the Board of Trustees of Brigham Young University and the Board of Education of the Church. We were unanimously of the opinion that the proposed legislation before the Congress is unnecessary and unwise. In accordance therewith President Wilkinson was requested to prepare and forward to Washington the statement, which I understand was placed in the Congressional Record by Senator Bennett . . . .

In our deliberations, . . . we approach the matter entirely from what we considered to be right from the standpoint of the nation, for we have no personal interest to serve. While our record shows our dedicated interest in education, we are not on educational payrolls . . . .

Local communities and the states are doing a pretty good job in taking care of school teachers’ salaries. We have noted, for instance, that over the last thirty years (from 1929 to 1959) the increase in teachers salaries was 106 percent in constant dollars. During the same period other state and local employees had an increase of only 58 percent and federal civilian employees only 73 percent.

We noted further that the average annual salary of school teachers rose from $3,126 in 1950-51 to $5,389 in 1960-61 (or 72.4 percent in a decade). The number of teachers with salaries below $3,500 decreased from 62 per cent in 1952-53 to 9.6 percent in 1960-61, and the number with salaries of $4,500 or more rose from 13 per cent to 63 per cent during the same period. The significant aspect of the matter is that the teachers’ salaries rose sharpest in the states where they have been lowest. Between 1938 and 1954, for instance, teachers’ salaries rose 101 per cent in dollars of constant value in the 12 lowest income states as compared with 28 per cent in the 12 top income states. The difference in salaries in different parts of the country are narrowing perceptibly each year.

With respect to the so-called building shortage . . . as shown by Mr. Freeman, the “incontestable fact is that over the past decade more than 600,000 classrooms were completed while the increased attendance required the addition of only 400,000. This means that over 200,000 new classrooms were made available to replace old ones and to reduce class sizes. This record is the result of [p. 194] thousands of communities voting bond issues and higher taxes year after year. It may be well to note that the new public schools, built in the postwar period, now house close to 20 million American children compared with schools for 9 million children which, according to their own claims, the Russians built in the same span of time . . . .”

. . . On the whole, the record has been excellent, and it demonstrates there is no justifiable basis for the present drive for general federal aid for schoolhouse construction. To the extent there was an emergency, that emergency is passed, for there will be only one-half the increase in school attendance over the next ten years. If, therefore, we keep building as many classrooms as we have built over the last ten years (which is probable), we shall build double the number we need for new students.(12)

Consequently, we finally came to the conclusion that federal aid, unless of mammoth proportions, might slow down, rather than accelerate the construction of needed buildings . . . .

We agree completely that this matter is non-partisan, which is the reason we believe it proper for us to take a position on the matter. We are frankly gravely concerned over the increasing tendency of the Federal Government to assume more responsibilities with an everlasting indebtedness. In this respect we note your statement that the Federal Government controls most of the revenue in this nation through the federal income tax, and that you, therefore, think that the Federal Government should take on this new burden. In our judgment, the tendency of the Federal Government to more and more control the revenue of the country should be reversed, not increased.(13) [p. 195]

It goes without saying that we are not attempting to control your vote in this matter, which should be determined by you in the clear exercise of your own conscience. But we have given to you our best advice based on no little study on our part . . . .” David O. McKay (President) (CN-11/10/62)

51 thoughts on “BYU-I President Works to Expel Professors Like Cleon Skousen?”

  1. How did this man gain the power he had/has at a church educational facility. He is pretty far left of center. Cleon Skousen was one of the very few that had the picture, intellectually and spiritually. He must be a die hard democrat with his thoughts. I wonder how many young minds he has clouded. Extremely disappointed in this type person teaching and influencing everyone, especially the youth.

    1. I’m so glad I attended Cleon Skousen’s Miracle of America classes. It is sad to know how many students wanted the Communist Bernie Sanders to be the president. Our prophet Ezra Taft Benson said “No true Latter-day Saint and no true American can be a socialist or a communist or support programs leading in that direction. These evil philosophies are incompatible with Mormonism, the true gospel of Jesus Christ.”

    2. John Dee Leverton

      WOW it greatly disturbs Me that a Socialist would and has been allowed to present such slander and un American views as truth to students in a learning situation as truth and with the blessing of thous who are supposed to be minding the store so to speak !

    3. I attended BYU in the late 60’s. I took three classes from Brother Skousen. I learned more about the Old Testament from him than any other source. He was very spiritual and a very enthusiastic teacher. His mother audited one of his religion classes and I had the privilege of getting to know her. Mr. Skousen teaching’s were always very supportive of the church and I gained a strong testimony from his tutoring. I am still active in the church.

  2. ya, what the heck. this is outrageous. i’m sorry but in all due respect, it seems that president clark doesnt have a clue about how the real world works – politically and economically.

  3. It is hard to understand how the inspired leaders of the LDS church would allow the collapse of moral and intellectual integrity that now exists and has existed within the BYU leadership for many years. What wisdom is there in allowing the brainwashing of the young leaders of America, or what has become Amerika! Socialism, Communism, and Fascism are essentially all the same and are the manefestations on this Earth of Satan’s plan that he sought to institute in the pre-existence. Those who espouse his plan now are his fools. Skousen was an inspired teacher and writer who was commissioned by inspired church leaders to write some of the books he did. Persecution of Skousen and people who espouse his teachings is a denial of the church leadership who called him to it.

    1. can you tell me which books Skousen wrote that were ‘commissioned by inspired church leaders to write some of the books he did’. I have read some of his books. I have read all of the books I can find that were commissioned by the church, ie Talmage, Pratt, etc. I would like to be certain to read anything Brother Skousen wrote that was commissioned by our church leadership.

      1. George H. Clark

        “The Naked Communist” was commissioned and endorsed by David O. McKay. And endorsed again by Ezra Taft Benson.

      2. There is an interesting story behind “The Cleansing of America” also. He wrote that book at the request of the church and withheld the release of it until the church determined that the “Time was right,” which wound up being after his death. When the time was right, the church instructed his family to release the book.

          1. I heard something similar from Cleon Skousen himself in 2005.. he specifically said it was Pres. Hinckley that said it shouldn’t be published yet.

          2. I have spoken with a member of the family now and he says there’s no truth to the notion that the church told the Skousen family when to publish the book. In fact, he said when Cleon passed away the book wasn’t even finished so it had to be finished up before publication.

            This could be because at the end of Cleon’s life he sometimes mixed up ideas. For example, I myself had a conversation with Cleon in 2003 where he told me something that didn’t quite ring true, so I contacted the person he was referring to and he told me how Cleon had it mixed up. There’s nothing nefarious about it, but I think Cleon just had some senior moments in his 90’s where he may not have remembered things perfectly. Here’s the story:

  4. I am very disturbed by this and would really like some follow up on this article. What is being done about it? I insist this is brought to the attention of Church Leadership. I am truly horrified.

  5. Cameron and Kimberly Smith

    I am very disturbed but not surprised that the Mormon Chronicle would try to discredit a new inspired program by the Church which is an answer to many prayers of faithful mothers who plead daily to the Lord for support in educating their children according to trueZion principles! I am so glad I have distanced myself from those who write and supporter Mormon Chronicle especially since they hide behind fake identities like Ezra Taylor to spew their lies and hatred for those trying to do good. I would suggest that you listen to the message given by Elder Clark announcing the church curriculum and let the Spirit testify to you of its truthfulness then trust in that Spirit!

    1. Under his direction I would be too afraid he would answer the prayers of these mothers in alignment with socialism. Those poor unsuspecting Mothers. No Thanks, I’ll educate my children myself still, instep with all the Revelations of the Lord Himself.

      Benjamin Franklin had several pennames by the way. As did Joseph Smith. I hope those who wish to follow Christ can focus on repentance to correct principle that benefits all mankind. God Bless!

    2. Sarcastically Sincere

      I listened to the whole thing and you were right, what overreacting. I particularly liked the part about how education *is* a spiritual experience with no qualifiers. I’m going to share my testimony of the spiritual experience I had of learning how we are descended from monkeys next fast Sunday. And then there was the part where he explained how they (CES) bring children to Christ and not the parents. The parents bring their children to them. I’ve got to say: what a relief. Bringing my children to Christ is way to hard and I didn’t want the responsibility anyway. So anyway, great talk. Stop hating on it people

    3. How can the M Chronicle spew hate by making his talk available to folks not familiar with BYU I policy…all is not well in Zion with the schools doctrine

  6. The logic presented in the first audio link is solid information. I don’t find anything suggesting socialism. He is speaking of the causes of our bleak economy and the need for clean over site and self restraint. However, his endorsement of Geitner I find surprising. Overall this audio is a thumbs up.

  7. I think President Clark is a believer in a mixed economy. I think he sees evil in unrestrained capitalism. Our history bears this out in the labor laws that were necessary for protecting the worker from being slaves to the company. I think President Clark also believes in a government set up by the constitution with both a federal and state government. What I don’t see is the label of some to call him a socialist. However, after listening to both audios, I would like him to speak toward secret combinations in our governments. What does he think of the idea of a world government, the open borders policy of Obama, a north American union, etc., etc.

    1. I might suggest that there is a great desire for people with firm gospel underpinnings as well a testimony of the divinity of our country’s constitution, to wish for a time when government regulations could be completely removed and that a “Christian heart” would prevail. In other words, that child-labor laws would not be necessary because no person in their right mind would ever injure or take advantage of a child, let alone another human being.

      But alas, we do not live in a perfect world. However, if we don’t work towards that eventuality, we won’t be worthy of it when it comes to pass and we will be sitting on the sidelines somewhere.

  8. George H. Clark

    Thank you for posting this. I am deeply dismayed at Mr. Clark’s obvious poor judgment in character and inability in spite of his years in academia to soundly understand the economy and how it actually works. That he is now in charge of CES is very troubling to me. He doesn’t understand sound government and the appropriate economics that accompany sound government–a government that actually preserves and protects the God-given rights of the people. His advocacy of increased government spending, his approval of the actions of the Federal Reserve, his willingness to increase taxes for his pet project (education), his calling for increased government regulation and oversight–all these demonstrate a big government/centralized/socialist mindset. That is not right!

    1. Liberalism is not as tolerant as you think if you count John Locke (Second Treatise) and it is not ‘Socialist’ if you recall Locke’s support for private property (Ibid). Position is not relevant; Otto Von Bismarck, the man who created social security, was by definition, a conservative nationalist (SSA History Archives)

  9. If I may suggest one thought:

    With out a thorough understanding of each side it is so easy to fall prey to truth mixed with error. Economics is no different.

    The Austrian school and it’s proponents like Hayek are teaching order, agency, freedom, personal responsibility. The Keynesian are seeking centralized control through market manipulation and fear.

    I highly recommend much of what Hayek wrote on the subject or at least check out this fun comparison.. in a couple “Rap Battles” and

    Honestly I’m praying that (before Clark’s new project) he has had some form of personal revelation or re-education, because his shadows of truth mixed with serious error is garbage.

    1. Yes Kathryn if I could give you a thousand thumbs up I would.

      Keynes was a socialist, and today’s educator’s don’t teach any Austrian economics. If they did, today’s student’s would recognize the errors of Keynesianism in a heartbeat, and we would all recognize the evils of a Federal Reserve with much greater concern.

      GREAT suggestion!

  10. My daughter is just finishing her freshman year at BYUI. She has encountered some of these same progressive attitudes and ideas. I called the school and asked about the socialist ideas being taught in her classes without rebuttal or balance by anyone and I was told, in short, that there are good members in socialist European countries that do just fine in the church. Nothing to worry about. Disappointing to say the least.

    1. I will not support my kids attending BYU. This is so contrary to the truth as it has been revealed through the Prophets. What a dreadful shame.

    2. You are kidding me right? I am going to assume you aren’t kidding… what are you going to do with your kids? If they are college age, they are old enough that they actually need to be exposed to different ways of thinking.

      If you have a problem with what they would learn at BYU or BYU-I… and deny them that opportunity on the grounds of it being dangerous ideologically than you basically are afraid to let your kids use their brain and think for themselves. And you are damning their progress.

      If you subscribe to LDS doctrine, you should know that knowledge is an important part of God’s plan as in agency.

      I have a feeling that you are the quintessential example of the dangers of confirmation bias.

      1. False doctrine taught at church schools is much more dangerous.

        Young students often get the false impression that it’s church approved doctrine.

        Also, as one who has attended both church schools as well as other schools in the state, I found the false doctrine now prevalent in the church school.

  11. Just a word of caution… many of the problems in the Book of Mormon for the Nephites started with divisions amongst those who were to be unified under one name: Christs’. There were times when they progressed and we’re greatly blessed because they were unified, … please don’t try to full yourself into thinking that this means they all thought the same but they all sought truth from the lord. There are worthy members throughout the world who are all over the political spectrum and they contribute to the kingdom. Please take care to not mix your political beliefs with gospel doctrine… one you figure out as best as you can the other is from god. I promise you, god does not belong to your party and your politics will hopefully change when Christ reigns.

    1. Of course there are members in all sorts of nations who are raised in socialist and even communist cultures and have no idea how wicked and antiChrist those isms are. In their ignorance the atonement buys them the grace needed for them to learn line upon line and precept upon precept. But once they are made aware that every prophet since Joseph smith has counseled against socialist principles they have a duty to embrace that truth otherwise they stand in open rebellion and reject the atonement on the point. Politics is not like picking your favorite icecream with little to no impact. Politics is the closest we come to showing how much we do or do not respect others agency. It is a continuation of the war in heaven. And we will be judged by our choice to use force.

      1. Very well put. How can you separate your political views from your religious views? Especially with some of the issues we now face. All is NOT well in Zion.

  12. Addressing the accusations against Elder Clark, if his views were in opposition to church doctrine, or if he was leading individuals astray (from god not from your understanding of good politics) something would be done about it… is Christ not at the head of His church? Allow the man to try to figure things outside of established doctrine as best he can just as you hope to do yourself. If we can be more unified in our efforts to seek god’s will we’ll better understand it. The problems we face now in our country in world are not caused by those “others” but by are divisiveness. If we continue to try to create “-ites” within the church (or nation, or world) things will get worse.

    1. As a watchman on the tower, I feel to warn you that one of the chief means of misleading our youth and destroying the family unit is our educational institutions. President Joseph F. Smith referred to false educational ideas as one of the three threatening dangers among our Church members. There is more than one reason why the Church is advising our youth to attend colleges close to their homes where institutes of religion are available. It gives the parents the opportunity to stay close to their children; and if they have become alert and informed as President McKay admonished us last year, these parents can help expose some of the deceptions of men like Sigmund Freud, Charles Darwin, John Dewey, Karl Marx, John Keynes, and others. Today there are much worse things

  13. Lolwhut? The Austrian School of economics and Mises et al were probably never mentioned because they are crackpots. The salient points they made were absorbed into the mainstream, and the rest was discarded as the utter trash that it still is. Give me a break.

  14. Not A Conservative Drone

    You’re pretty desperate to ignore TODAY’s prophets, and instead quote PAST presidents. In the last 10 years of conferences, did anyone, ANYONE at all, mention your points?

    Clark’s first audio had sound reasoning, much better than your fear mongering.

  15. Update. Statements by some former and current byu-I students that some professors were advancing views carefully and privately just got new wind in their sail. A professor was turned in for peeling away students by using private Facebook posts to teach the the church leaders and doctrine are wrong on various points. She expressed not only support of lgbtq issues but said outright that it is natural and not a sin and there is no binary gender and that tou cannot hate the sin because the persons sin is the person. That direct antichrist stuff right there. And just as the scriptures warn it is billed as good whil good as revealed by the Lord and his servants is billed as evil.

    1. Also I could not find the original article with the extra info I added as I read it a few days ago. But all this professor needed to do was remove the Facebook post and would have been allowed to continue undermining the church’s positions at byu-i. Other professors with similar views are also voicing support for the ousted professor giving the impression that they are of like mind but simply willing to comply with orders to remove posts that say too much too openly as this professor did. The original article I read said that the polysci department was driving local progressivist polices forward by offering extra course credit for students that support these socialist programs at town halls and public forums while not offering that for opposing activism.

    2. Was very pleased that BYU I terminated the young lady…You are with the program or against it…at her young age she didn’t understand that…It is a blessing that she showed her hand at this early start of her career in life…Interesting that it took them a few days to try to work with her…I am suprised at the socialism that has creeped into the BYU educational system thru its teachers….thanks


  16. It isn’t that the writer is left or center or liberal,. He is a conservative. It is the fact that w. Cleon Scousen. Was a out right loon and kook,. He has lied about his past and about many things. His beliefs are just a personal fantasy

    1. People like you, LDS on paper I suppose, disappoint me to the max. Its easy to attack an outstanding LDS scholar who has did so much for the benefit of man kind in trying to discover where he came from, why he is here upon the earth, and where he is going when he passes on. I have read much of Brother Scousen’s work and it deeply offends me if he is LDS, who calls anyone, especially another LDS “an out right loon and kook.” WHO ARE YOU? and by what authority do you supposedly have to make this demeaning attack on a righteous dead man? Hope the other commenters from the original post read this…It appears to me that we may need to “clean out the LDS swamp” of these socialist liberals who try to infiltrate the church”s higher education system.

      1. I’m afraid the Church would not agree with entirely with you; they told him in the 70’s he needed to politick outside, not inside the Church (Letter from the Office of the First Presidency, Spencer W. Kimball, N. Eldon Tanner, Marion G. Romney, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Salt Lake City, Utah, 15 February 1979)

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