Enemies of the restored gospel have been pushing for the destruction of the Patriarchal order, seeking to fulfill the prophecy of Isaiah 3:12 (quoted in 2 Nephi 13:12)
“And my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they who lead thee cause thee to err and destroy the way of thy paths.”
From the apostate feminist Mormon housewives to the “ordain women” organization, a group of self proclaimed goddesses and their male minions have been trying to direct the church to change (in vain) the eternal role of men and women. Why is the Patriarchal so important and worth defending? This video explains.
Your post about patriarchy was put up the day after the most radical change to the temple ceremony that has occurred in a very long time — perhaps the most radical change to date. The changes were obviously in response to feminist concerns about the previously overtly patriarchal stance of the temple ceremony — and appears to have addressed all (or nearly all) concerns by feminists about the patriarchal aspects of the temple.
So perhaps you might understand my question when considering the timing of your post.
With your pro-patriarchal post, I’m curious how you feel about the pro-feminist changes to the temple.
Clair, The changes are in line with Patriarchy. They just obscure those doctrines and laws that are too much for the tares in the hopes that they will study and seek the truths that will bring them happiness. For example, see the Proclamation on the Family for big glaring hints. Then see Genesis and the Pearl of Great price for more. You cannot and will not obtain exaltation or eternal joy by rejecting eternal celestial truths or trying to remain in ignorance of them. As Joseph said, ” No man can be saved in ignorance”
As a lds convert lds member who is inactive of the church of jesus christ of latter day saints i support the feminists changes. I have always felt that the women should be allowed to do things in the church as. Equals. I think in the past that male patriarchy has gone to. The extreme not allowing women equal to serve in. The. Church. I am all. For women being ordained and being in the. Priesthood. God is no respector of persons. We are all suppose to be created equally. Male patriarchy should not be threatened by matriarchy. The male should see women as equals. I am all for women ministers and pastors at other churches. There are a lot of God fearing men and God fearing women pastors and reverands and ministers out their serving the lord. Ee are to look at the good in all things. In the past temple ceremonies eve was not allowed to speak. A women should be allowed to speak preach and teach the same equally as men do. Prevouis women like sonia johnson were a great inspiration and a start to the feminists. We all have the freedom of speech and freed agency to have our beliefs and views. No man and women should be reprimanded or accused of causing strife and contention just because they are asking questions and have a differant point of view then the traditionalists view. We live in a 21st century millenial world today that most. Young millenials in this generation want spirituality not organized religion institutionalized. Religion and dogma. Personal spirituality is the big major paradign shift effecting not only the lds church but all other denominations. Traditionally
According to the official website, the definition of the “APOSTASY” is, “When individuals or groups of people turn away from the principles of the gospel, they are in a state of apostasy. ” https://www.lds.org/topics/apostasy?lang=eng
From an article by Jana Riess (Religous News Service):
“The Salt Lake Tribune is reporting from a witness who went through the temple Wednesday that important elements have indeed been altered, including:
GONE: women’s promise to hearken to their husbands, as the husbands hearken directly to the Lord. Men are no longer intermediaries between women and God in the temple. EXPANDED: the role of Eve, who previously had no dialogue after the expulsion from Eden, and is now purportedly more loquacious than Satan. UNITED: women and men covenanting together to serve God, with the same promises, rather than covenanting separately with slightly different wording. Over the last day I have also heard other attendees reporting about their experiences, and the changes sound far-reaching. This is not just window dressing, but a full overhaul of many aspects of the temple. Without going into detail, I understand that these changes include:
A simplification of ritual clothing and how it is used A shorter overall length to the ceremony, with some repetitive language eliminated or changed A different temple movie that is primarily composed of still shots with narration rather than a live action film Gender equality in the language of the sealing ceremony, where the bride and groom now apparently make the same promises to each other”
Not supporting the feminist changes made to the endowment does not make one an apostate.
Now changing the ordinances in a way that minimizes the patriarchal order and God ordained husband/wife relationships contained in the scriptures, well that might constitute apostasy…
Apostasy is turning away from God and his teachings. Apostasy is not refusing to blindly go along with those who are turning away from God and his teachings.
What do the scriptures say about the husband wife relationship?
The husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church.
Did Christ rule over the church with an iron fist?
No, he have his life for the church.
This is perfectly in line with the previous endowment.
Feminists cried foul long enough and the brethren finally caved.
As a student of Church History, especially that history including the Prophet Joseph Smith and again the history of the early church that they Apostle Paul preached, Patriarchy played a smaller role that many think. For example, in the early letters that Paul wrote, women were regarded very highly and had many active roles in the gospel alongside men. The later epistiles, sometimes referred to as the pastoral epistiles, the ones that call on women to “keep silence and submit”, are actually thought by most Bible scholars to not have even been written by Paul, but rather came along later, having been written by someone else in Paul’s name. President Nelson is spot on.
From an agenda-driven set of changes (the agenda being to equalize the roles of men and women) I’m not aware of any set of changes that were bigger than this. However there may be other changes that were more numerous, or by some other measures may have been bigger.
BTW, I am published in Mormon history, present papers to conference on a regular basis, manage ‘Today in Mormon History’, etc… :-)
Great point Tom — and that matches my understanding too. The forged letter from Paul represents the common ideology of Roman culture from that time — and seems in opposition to Jesus’s actions regarding women. Jesus was always promoting women and standing against the cultural male-centric patriarchal norms of the time.
“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.” Isaiah 24:5-7
“With the division of labour, in which all these contradictions are implicit, and which in its turn is based on the natural division of labour in the family and the separation of society into individual families opposed to one another, is given simultaneously the distribution, and indeed the unequal distribution, both quantitative and qualitative, of labour and its products, hence property; the nucleus, the first form, of which lies in the family, where wife and children are the slaves of the husband. This latent slavery in the family, though still very crude, is the first property.” Karl Marx
The claim has always been that the though the way in which the endowment is performed has changed somewhat to fit the needs of the times, the ordinances themselves have not changed.
Of course now a woman is no longer sealed to her husband and his patriarchal line, instead they are sealed to each other.
That’s a changed ordinance. It’s really not much different, if at all, to changing baptism from immersion to sprinkling.
Joseph Smith said that ordinances necessary for salvation are not to be changed as all have to be saved under the same principles.
So unless we want to say that the sealing ordinance is not necessary for salvation, we have no right to change it.
Of course the church has the answer to satisfy the masses. The restoration is on going so anything and everything can be changed. It’s all good, nothing to worry about. All is well in Zion. Take it easy, no need to get worked up.
It is so telling that Mormon feminists are high fiving each other all over the internet as soon as word of the changes came out.
They believe they are helping to further the restoration, by destroying core teachings and practices of the church from the original restoration.
Apparently God wasn’t comfortable telling Joseph Smith that the Biblical teachings on marriage and the roles of men and women were sexist doctrines of the devil, so He just told Joseph to maintain the status quo and even gave him some modern revelation confirming the Satanic sexist doctrines on marriage and the roles of men and women.
This is what the feminists would have us believe.
Unfortunately most members just nod along.
We as a people have apparently forgotten that Zion can only be built up upon the principles of the celestial kingdom, not upon watered down doctrines that have been made to conform with the views of the world.
Regarding the evolution of the endowment, personally I see the recent changes as migrating away from an older, flawed understanding of what Jesus taught. In addition to the problem of modifications of the text of Paul, Paul never spent time learning from Jesus, and was often at odds with the other apostles (who spent a lot of time with Jesus). The idea that women should be silent, and can access God only through their husbands — stands in stark opposition to the the teachings of Jesus who continually lifted up the role of women. He promoted a level playing field where all had full access to the kingdom of heaven.
The dominant Roman culture, however, taught that the powerful had access to God, and the disenfranchised did not. Jesus challenged Roman culture directly by saing the “meek would inherite the earth” or the poor who would inherit the kingdom of God (and a number of related sayings). The teachings ascribed to Paul regarding women fit perfectly into Roman culture and against the teachings of Jesus. That was what was so radical about Christianity. Everyone, including women, had full access to God.
Today, we see the LDS endowment taking a closer step toward the Christian ideal that God loves both men and women equally. I thihk we should celebrate those changes.
The influence of a modern American Marxist society is having repercussions upon the Restoration. It is Marxist doctrine to believe:
“In the family, he [the man] is the bourgeois; the wife represents the proletariat.”
“Similarly, the peculiar character of man’s domination over woman in the modern family, and the necessity, as well as the manner, of establishing real social equality between the two, will be brought out into full relief only when both are completely equal before the law. It will then become evident that the first premise for the emancipation of women is the reintroduction of the entire female sex into public industry; and that this again demands that the quality possessed by the individual family of being the economic unit of soceity be abolished.” Karl Marx & Friedrich Engels
Randy, what ever label one places on equality seems irrelevant to the merit of equality. Equal and fair treatment is not evil, it is good, regardless of whether Marx, or anyone else said it.
There is nothing in the writings of Paul in Corinthians or anywhere else in the scriptures that suggest that God doesn’t love men and women equally.
Same goes for the previous teachings in the endowment.
God’s house is a house of order however, and the scriptures make it clear that God put the man before the woman.
This is not PC today of course, but it has nothing to do with God supposedly loving women less.
Sadly feminists cried foul long enough and got enough women on board with this idea that God putting the man before the women, or better said the husband before the wife, is sexist and cruel to women. Eventually the brethren decided to give into these false ideas and caved.
They actually caved along time ago in this area when it came to what was taught in church, but the temple still had it right until the recent changes.
I guess we’ll see what happens next. This change is hardly the only problem in the church today. It’s merely the tip of the iceberg.
Marxism and its philosophy of equality is poison to the gospel of Jesus Christ. Christ taught that we are to be ‘one’ not equal.
This is what equality means. It literal destroys the family. “The position of the men thus undergoes considerable change. With the passage of the means of production into common property, the individual family ceases to be the economic unit of society. Private housekeeping is transformed into a social industry. The care and education of the children becomes a public matter. Society takes care of all children equally, irrespective of whether they are born in wedlock or not. Thus, the anxiety about the ‘consequences,’ which is today the most important social factor-both moral and economic-that hinders a girl from giving herself freely to the man she loves, disappears. Will this not be cause enough for a gradual rise of more unrestrained sexual intercourse, and along with it, a more lenient public opinion regarding virginal honour and feminine shame?”
Watchman said: “the scriptures make it clear that God put the man before the woman.”
I’d argue that authors of various scripture included their own world-view assumptions in their writings. Some of them inserted the patriarchal views of their time into their writings. When women are removed from direct access to God in the temple or elsewhere, that does not follow the spirit of what Christ taught. That feels more Old testament / letter-of-the-law / Pharasee-ish. For example, when Brigham Young taught than menstruating women should not go to the temple, I think he was imposing his patriarchal world-view, some of which he picked up from the patriarchal-world-view of some authors in the Old Testament. Its hard to imagine Jesus teaching the same thing.
To me, it seems contradictory to suggest that God loves women as much as men, but excludes them from speaking in church, symbolically being in God presence in the Temple, or obeying God through indirectly through their husband.
I get what your saying, I really do. It’s tough when the philosophies of men (and feminists) contradict the word of God in the scriptures. The ideas of the world are very appealing.
You said you believe that some of the men who wrote the scriptures inserted ideas from their own Patriarchal world view which were not from God.
In essence you want to pick and choose what parts of the scriptures you will believe. I believe this is a very dangerous path to take.
Here’s a couple of verses from Moses 4 that relate to the endowment. This is God speaking to Adam and Eve after they had both partake of the forbidden fruit.
22 Unto the woman, I, the Lord God, said: I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception. In sorrow thou shalt bring forth children, and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. 23 And unto Adam, I, the Lord God, said: Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the fruit of the tree of which I commanded thee, saying—Thou shalt not eat of it, cursed shall be the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life. 24 Thorns also, and thistles shall it bring forth to thee, and thou shalt eat the herb of the field. 25 By the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, until thou shalt return unto the ground—for thou shalt surely die—for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou wast, and unto dust shalt thou return. 26 And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living; for thus have I, the Lord God, called the first of all women, which are many.
Which version of the endowment matches the word of God in the scriptures? The previous version or the new one?
This is from the JST mind you, so if it contains substantial false doctrine there really is no scripture we can trust is there?
Actually the previous version of the endowment was already a step towards caving to feminism. The pre 1990 endowment matches the scriptures the closest.
Didn’t the primitive Christian church fall into apostasy by slowly changing ordinances and teachings contrary to the scriptures and original teachings of Christ and his apostles?
How can we do the same and be justified?
Are we not following the same path into apostasy as Christ’s ancient church?
LDS Watchman You are right about this subject, the church has caved to feminist pressure, I was just reading some quotes by president Howard W. Hunter where he said women shouldn’t lower themselves to the level of men and that they are spiritually superior to men,(if so than wouldn’t women have the priesthood instead? Not saying men are necessarily superior spiritually but I don’t see how men would be inferior) it seems like even when they are trying to encourage traditional femininity in a material way they promote the idea of feminism. I don’t mean to be overly critical of president Hunter, but this is how I take his quotes as found here.
Here is a Joseph Smith discourse that is not well known. He gave this in Nauvoo and interprets the parable of the twelve olive trees as being something to come, rather than being about Missouri (everyone assumed it was about Missouri). —– Discourse, circa 19 July 1840, as Reported by Unknown Scribe–A
Source Note
Document Transcript
A Few Items from a Discourse Delivered by Joseph Smith, July 19, 1840. Read a chapter in [Ezekiel?] concluding with this saying and when all these things come to pass and Lo they will come then shall you know that a Prophet hath been among you. Afterwards read the parable of the 12 olive trees, and said speaking of the Land of Zion:— It consisted of all North and South America, but that any place where the Saints gather is Zion which every righteous man will build up for a place of safety for his children. The Olive trees are 12 stakes which are yet to be built not the Temple in Jackson County as some suppose, for while the 12 stakes are being built we will be at peace but the nations of the earth will be at war: Our cry from the first has been for peace and we will continue pleading like the widow at the feet of the unjust Judge, but we may plead at the feet of magistrates and at the feet of Judges, at the feet of Governors and at the feet of Senators, at the feet of Presidents for 8 years it will be of no avail, we shall find no favor in any of the Courts of this Government. The redemption of Zion is, the redemption of all North and South America, and those 12 stakes must be built up before the redemption of Zion can take place, and those who refuse to gather and build when they are commanded to do so, cease to be saviors of men and are thenceforth good for nothing but shall be cast out and trodden underfeet of men for their trans [p. 1]gression]-as Reed Peck was when he applied in the name of an apostate for business in a store in Quincy. They told him that they wanted no apostates round them and showed him the door. At this same store the Authorities of the Church could have obtained almost any amount of credit they could have asked—— *We shall build the Zion of the Lord in peace until the servants of that Lord shall begin to lay the foundation of a great and high watch Tower and then shall they begin to say within themselves what need hath my Lord of this tower seeing this is a time of peace, etc. Then the Enemy shall come as a thief in the night and scatter the servants abroad when the seed of these 12 olive trees are scattered abroad they will wake up the nations of the whole earth. Even this nation will be on the very verge of crumbling to pieces and tumbling to the ground and when the Constitution is upon the brink of ruin this people will be the Staff up[on] which the Nation shall lean and they shall bear the Constitution away from the very verge of destruction— Then shall the Lord say: Go tell all my servants who are the strength of mine house, my young men and middle aged &c., Come to the land of my vineyard and fight the battle of the Lord— Then the Kings and Queens shall come, then the rulers of the earth shall come, then shall all Saints come, yea the foreign Saints shall come to fight for the land of my vineyard, for in this thing shall be their safety and they will have no power to choose but will come as a man fleeth from a sudden destruction— But before [p. 2] this the time shall be these who are now my friends shall become my enemies and shall seek to take my life and there are those now before me who will more furiously pursue me, more diligently seek my life and be more blood-thirsty upon my track than ever were the Missouri mobbers, you say among yourselves as did them of old time, “Is it I? is it I? but I know these things by the visions of the Almighty.]- But brethren come ye, yea come all of you who can come and go to with your mights and build up the cities of the Lord and whosoever will let him come and partake of the poverty of Nauvoo freely for those who partake of her poverty shall also partake of her prosperity and it is now wisdom in God that we should enter into as compact a city as possible. For Zion and Jerusalem must both be built up before the coming of Christ. How long will it take to do this 10 years, yes more than 40 years will pass before this work will be accomplished and when these cities are built then shall the coming of the Son of Man be. Now let all who can coolly and deliberately dispose of their property come up and give of their substance to the Lord that the hearts of the poor may be comforted and all may worship God together in holiness of heart. Come brethren, come all of you— And I prophecy in the name of the Lord that the State of Illinois shall become a great and mighty mountain, a city set upon a hill that cannot be hid and a great [candle?] that giveth light to the world. The city of Nauvoo also shall become the greatest city in the [p. 3] whole world. Now brethren I obligate myself to build as great a Temple as ever Solomon did if the Church will back me up, moreover, it shall not impoverish any man but enrich thousands and I prophecy that the time shall be when these Saints shall ride proudly over the mountains of Missouriand no Gentile dog nor Missouri dog shall dare lift a tongue against them, but will lick up the dust from beneath their feet, and I pray the Father that many here may realize this and see it with their eyes, and if it should be the -[stretching his hand towards the place and in a melancholy tone that made all hearts tremble]- will of God that I might live to behold that temple completed and finished from the foundation to the top stone I will say— Oh Lord it is enough, let thy servant depart in peace which is my earnest prayer in the name of the Lord Jesus, Amen. On this day the Stake of Macedonia over which Father John Smith presided was publicly appointed. *Curse that man who says to his neighbor, you are a mean man because you do not believe as I do. I now invite all liberal minded men to come up to Nauvoo and help to build up the City of our God. We are not greatly distressed, no, nor never will be. This is the principle place of gathering therefore let the brethren begin to roll in like clouds, and we will sell you lots if you are able to pay for them and if not you shall have them without money and without price. The greater blessing is unto those who came in [p. 4] times of adversity. For many will come to us in times of prosperity that will stand at the corners of the streets saying with long pharisaical faces to those that come after them, don’t go near brother Joseph don’t go near the Authorities of the Church for they will pick your pockets, they will rob you of all your money. Thus will they breed in our midst a spirit of dissatisfaction and distrust that will end in persecution and distress. Now from this hour bring everything you can bring and build a Temple unto the Lord, a House unto the mighty God of Jacob. We will build upon the top of this Temple a great Observatory, a great and high watch tower, and in the top thereof we will suspend a tremendous bell that when it is rung shall rouse the inhabitants of Madison, wake up the people of Warsaw and sound in the ears of men Carthage Then comes the ancient records, yea all of them dig them, yes bring them forth speedily. Then shall the poor be fed by the curious who shall come from all parts of the world to see this wonderful Temple. Yea I prophecy that pleasure parties shall come from England to see the Mammoth and like the Queen of Sheba shall say— the half never was told them. School houses shall be built here and high schools shall be established and the great men of the earth shall send their sons here to board while they are receiving their education among us and even noblemen shall crave the privilege of educating their children with us, and these poor Saints shall chink [p. 5] in their pockets the money of these proud men received from such as come and dwell with us. Which holds the keys of entrance into the Kingdom. Then the three signs which were given were conclusive. The dove which sat upon his shoulder was a sure testimony that he was of God. Brethren be not deceived nor doubtful of this fact, a spirit of a good man or an angel from heaven who has not a body will never undertake to shake hands with you for he knows you cannot perceive his touch and never will extend his hand, but any spirit or body that is attended by a dove you may know to be a pure spirit, thus you may in some measure detect the spirits who may come unto you. John was great in that he baptized Jesus and for this cause Jesus saith Among them that are born of woman there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist. But again he says from the days of John the Baptist till the Kingdom of Heaven suffereth violence and the violent taketh it by force. Jesus as I said could not enter except by the administration of John Although John was not a restorer but a forerunner. It was not the lawful priests who rejected Jesus but the self made priests. Those who were priests lawfully received the Savior in his station which was given him by the law. [p. 6]
I have yet to get to the temple to experience the changes, but am anxious to do so. Based solely on descriptions here, I must note that the gender relationships in the just replaced endowment were not in harmony with decades of 1st Presidency teachings that regard marriage as an “equal partnership.” I expect to be very pleased by the adjustments that The Brethren have made in the endowment ceremony.
That’s pretty feminist alright. From the feminist perspective men are evil, especially white, heterosexual, Christian men.
Great question on blacks getting the priesthood.
It comes down to two options:
Either Brigham Young was a racist bigot and was wrong about what he said or Spencer W. Kimball and the rest of the brethren did a very bad thing in 1978.
What I find most interesting is that the very promises of blacks one day being eligible for the priesthood that Kimball used to justify the “revelation” giving blacks the priesthood actually forbid what he did.
Brigham Young and others said they could/would get the priesthood after the millennium and after the curse (dark skin) had been removed.
So either way Kimball really wasn’t justified in giving them the priesthood.
The scriptures back brother Brigham up in my book. Abraham 1 and Moses 7 back him up as do several other scriptures.
This scripture is particularly interesting in regards to your question:
Referring to the New Jerusalem in the last days Zechariah prophesied:
20 ¶ In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, Holiness unto the Lord; and the pots in the Lord’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar. 21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.
(Zechariah 14)
This suggests that the Canaanites (blacks) will no longer be allowed in the temple during the millennium. As the Canaanites are referred to as the black race who were descendents of Cain who couldn’t hold the priesthood.
That is of course provided that Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and every church president before 1978 were right that blacks are descendents of Cain and Canaanites.
It’s a big problem alright. It’s quite possible that Brigham Young was right and that the church is now headed for certain destruction by given blacks the priesthood, allowing them into the temple, and permitting interracial marriage with them.
As a keen observer who was first endowed in 1975, I can assure anyone who’s interested that the recent changes made to the temple endowment are, in actuality, nothing more than a continuation of an ongoing process of the incremental withdrawal of much of the more sacred content of the endowment, and this so as to not offend those who are not yet ready and able to internalize the stronger “meat” (mysteries of godliness) of the kingdom of God.
For anyone who had two brain cells to rub together back in 1990, it was more than painfully obvious that the “changes” made to the endowment back then were nothing more or less than a withdrawal of many sacred components of the endowment, so as to not offend the sensibilities of members who were not spiritually mature enough to be able to digest stronger meat.
So too with the recent changes, as now even more of the sacred content of the endowment has been withdrawn from view because today many of members are even less able to absorb and be edified by exposure to the deeper mysteries of the gospel than those of the recent past.
The leaders of the Church had no choice but to “dumb down” the endowment because, in a postmodern world saturated with the false gospels of Marxism and feminism, the sacred content of the previous endowment was falling on deaf ears and doing more harm than good. Too many members of the Church were trampling on sacred things and now more sacred things have been withdrawn from view. Congratulations…
Amen Theo, That is exactly right. Since we aren’t in the temple, I am not comfortable giving detailed explanations of why what Theo is saying is exactly right, but it is. In principle what is happening here is not a “changing” of the ordinances. It is a purposeful dumbing down or shrouding of the portions that were previously plain and precious but that most members no longer appreciate or would listen to. so then it acts as condemnation on them to be presented with truth that they reject in favor of their wicked and evil feminist ideals which they love more than God. I will say that before the minimalist version of the endowment is presented, a statement by the first presidency is given which clearly states that the ordinance has not been changed. Of course the tare feminists ignore that and instead jump to the conclusion that it has been changed. They pick and choose and are unstable in all their ways.
I would be very curious from anyone if a similar statement was read at the start of the 1990 endowment changes or not?
If you realize this from the outstart, then when you hear the wording changes and other changes, you can ask for the spirit to show you how it has not changed and it become very clear, by revelation how this is the case. Nothing has changed about the commitment. What is different is that the wording used is more ambiguous so that only by revelation will you be able to fully understand and implement the eternal laws presented to claim the blessings promised.
Remember that just before these changes took place, President Nelson said in very direct and open terms the following. “In coming days, it will NOT BE POSSIBLE TO SURVIVE SPIRITUALLY without the guiding, directing, comforting, and constant influence of the Holy Ghost.”
My personal impression, was that he meant that very literally. He meant that not only would the world step up it attacks and pressure on the saints to deny the Christ by siding with Marxists, Feminists and Statists (Read unaware Baal Worshippers) but that the saints would not be able to simply get answers from the Brethren as they used too. President Nelson knew very well the endowment was going to be dumbded down. No one going throught he new endowment can honestly say that a ton is not simplified and glossed over. In 1990 I do know a very long and explanatory portion of the endowment meant to review and clarify much of what it said was removed. the trend is clear that the endowment is being trimmed and simplified and the deeper truths are being hidden. They are still there but they can only be found by revelation now.
When you go through imagine your children, with no knowledge of the 1990 changes or the recent ones, seeing only that endowment for the first time. How much will it really tell them? Very little compared to what was once available. I think the saints greatly underestimate the level to which the Lord will allow us to reject his gospel and walk away from truths. He wont change them but he will change the wording so that we can choose how to interpret those words and show him who we really are. that’s whats going on.
If we walk away from the Gospel towards the left and accept the ideas of the world we will not have eternal life or eternal spouse or eternal posterity. AND if we appoint ourselves the judges of the prophets and correct our heads by condemning them for doing only that which the Lord has told them to do in dumbing down the gospel to the level of disobedience of the saints, we are veering off to the right and will also not have eternal life or spouse or posterity. That’s the truth. Either you know the Lord is at the head or you don’t. It really is as simple as that.
Once I determined that I would be true to what I already knew and that the Lord not only lived by ruled over his errant and vagrant bride, the church, was I able to see what was really going on. The same pattern that occurs in EVERY DISPENSATION to lose the gospel is occurring now and its plain to see. but it isn’t the leaderships fault. Its the saints. its always been the saints fault to claim or reject the blessings of the gospel by obedience to his laws.
The comments of the priesthood ban, Plural marriage, and other issues can all be understood clearly once we accept the Lord is ruling his church and ask the spirit to help us understand. But that will only come if we suspend a spirit of judgement and ask to understand and promise to stand true to our covenants no matter what anyone else is doing.
Theo Suhaka, that is an interesting point you made, I am a new member of the church and am not old enough to know about that anyway, I will keep that in mind as I learn more about the temple.
Thank you for your post, i’m glad to know i’m not alone, it is clear that the church has been corrupted as seen by feminism, race-mixing, and other things. How can we preserve the spiritual vitality of the gospel when the churh keeps giving in to its enemies?
I absolutely appreciate this site. Through the years I have read many so called LDS sites. The last ten years the people who own these sites, and the people who write articles for these sites, have shown their true colors…….Alt Left Socialist Communists Anti American, Anti Christian, Anti Male, Anti Caucasion, Anti LDS religion, Anti Jew, and on and on.
Today I was reading a blog that has stayed mainly on the conservative side. Unfortunately the article I read today on that site has the typical socialist communist regressive nonsense. That site has been slowly going to the Marxist Alinsky side.
Thank you for another great article. It is wonderful to know that there are other LDS members who think like I do and stay true to what is right and good.
My question would be why our current prophets, seers, and revelators do not boldly call us to repentance for our many sins and for the great corruption that is now in the church?
Why doesn’t our prophet President Nelson preach out against feminism? Why does he not raise the warning voice as the watchman on the tower against mothers going to work when it isn’t absolutely necessary? Why doesn’t he speak out against the immodesty of our wives and daughters? Why doesn’t he tell women to listen to their husbands and follow their council, rather than letting them believe that they should rule their husbands?
Has God forbidden him to speak or is he afraid to?
What good does it do to water the gospel down?
The church is no longer leading people to the Celestial kingdom if we allow such corruption into our midst and do nothing about it.
Is this not what Isaiah is referring to when he declared:
2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the Lord hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me. 3 The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master’s crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider. 4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the Lord, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward. 5 ¶ Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. 6 From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.
Why do church publications show mixed race marriages?
Why do we have idols of Christ (Christus statues) in our visitor centers at our temples?
Why do we permit blacks to have the priesthood and enter temples without the curse first being removed?
I could make a list of dozens and dozens of things like this and not one peep from our prophet against it, in fact our prophet and the rest of our apostles promote all of these things?
Has God changed? Does he no longer have his true prophets speak hard, but true things to his people?
Or are the men we sustain as prophets speaking from their own hearts and not from God?
@Watchman and Owyhee Cowboy, basically what’s going on here is that the gospel is being obscured, withdrawn, taken, because the Gentiles, That means the Ephramites that were gathered out of the Gentile nations where they had been scattered, that means the church today which is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, This mean YOU and your Ward and your Stake, is being sieved.
Pres Nelson is doing exactly what he is being told to do. What are you doing? Are you standing where the Lord has appointed you or self appointing yourself as the accuser of the brethren like lucifer himself? Pres Nelson, has come out and clearly told us the time to let the Prophets do our fighting for us and standing for us is over. That’s what I got anyway when he said that in the coming days we will NOT Survive Spiritually if we do not learn to lean upon revelation. I think he is literally telling us that he and the prophets will no longer be allowed to share with us everything we need to navigate the dangers ahead. Times up. You either have your oil or get it yesterday or you will not have time.
Only those who qualify to have the spirit will understand what is happening. Many Prophets have warned of this day and begged us to pay any price we must, to obtain and retain the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The prophets are not and have never “given in” to the various wicked practices of the world. The Saints have. The saints have been taught correct principles, and they have overall REFUSED to govern themselves BY THOSE PRINCIPLES. Just read Samuel chapter 8 really carefully and substitute almost any topic you want into that situation in place of the Israelites demands for a King against Gods express wishes.
After you read that chapter you should be able to clearly see that God will command the prophets to give us what we want even when it will prove to be our destruction. Not because they want, not because it is their idea to lead us astray, but to because God will respect our agency to destroy ourselves and others if we insist. Stop acting surprised by this.
This same thing has happened in every dispensation of time to the vast majority of the saints. They get comfortable and forget their God and start making their performances outwardly while inwardly they begin worshipping false idols of the world like money, power, fame, fashion, etc.
The question is asked “what is the benefit of watering down the gospel?” Two fold. The newer generation are taught at a level that is realistic and doable for them based on the legacy of corruption left by their forefathers. It isn’t right to hold them to a standard that they cannot realistically achieve given the culture and times they must deal with. Basically if the Lord can set the standard of 100% righteousness that it takes to qualify for the celestial kingdom. Then lets say that the amount of the gospel revealed in Josephs day was 1% righteousness with the balance of 99% to be handled by the enabling power of the atonement. But then you get to our day and we have perhaps .5% righteousness going on among the most dutiful of the saints. Does it make a lot of sense for a saint with .4% righteousness implemented in their lives to accuse and belittle the saints that have as of yet only achieved .3% righteousness? Seriously what’s the difference?
Watchman listed a laundry list of judgments he has made against the current leadership. Its like he doesn’t get that all our efforts are as filthy rags. Would you let a guy into your perfectly white and clean house that was covered from head to toe in mud except for 1% of him was clean. Lets say his pinky finer is clean. If the savior is willing to help this guy be cleansed enough to enter the kingdom after spending an entire life and only getting his pinky finger cleaned, then why cant you cut him some slack and leave the Lord to do the judging of his own people and prophets? You argument is like a guy covered in mud except for the first knuckle of his pinky finger, accusing another guy whos is entirely muddy except for the finger nail of his pinky finger being clean after all he could do to follow the commandments in his time and place. Its a ridiculous position to argue from. It will damn you if you don’t knock it off.
If you had the spirit you would realize why this is happening and why its needed. God is unchanging., But our wicked natures hasn’t moved much.
Owyhee Cowboy, you are absolutely right, I can’t help but think The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is an example of a great abominable church as talked about in the Book of Mormon. https://faithfulsaints.com/satans-plan-of-spiritual-communism-revealed/ The church is being destroyed by Satan, this article says it wasn’t infiltrated in 1947, I don’t know if this is true, but it is definetly not true as of 2019. While the church isn’t as bad as other churches (it doesn’t support abortion, gay marriage, or transgenderism, yet) it is getting that way. I don’t think the church is salvageable in its current state, but I think a lot of its members are.
I cannot say I am one of these members, I seek guidance to affirm a belief in the gospel but I am plagued by constant doubts and anti-christian sentiments, but am open to a knowledge of the truth and due to spiritual feelings I have gotten I very much do believe god wants me in the church, though i do not know why. I respect you and LDS Watchman for speaking the truth. Keep on speaking the truth brothers, I appreciate it and i’m sure many others do as well.
LDS Watchman, you should start your own website man! You have a large understanding of these important issues and I think you could do a lot of good writing articles about this for members of the church to read, as well as for people who associate the doctrine with the church and may be inclined to reject the gospel bc of its association with the church.
Yes it’s true that the Lord allowed Israel to have a king and had Samuel annoint Saul and later David as King.
Having said that, having a king is not inherently wrong. In fact having a righteous king is better than having a democracy or group of judges according to the BOM. Also considering that Christ is a king through the loins of David, clearly this was the Lord’s will.
Believe it or not I’m not accusing the brethren. I’m asking the tough questions about why they don’t speak out against the wickedness in the church? Isn’t that their job?
Apparently you don’t think so, but what do the scriptures say?
You are right that it’s not my place to cast judgement on our prophets, seers, and revelators. However, given the complete lack of prophecy, seership, and revelation coming from these men, do I not have the right to ask why this is?
Shouldn’t I search the scriptures to see if this question is answered?
It seems that the Lord has answered this question.
Isaiah 28 speaks of the drunkards of Ephraim.
7 ¶ But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment. 8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean. 9 ¶ Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 13 But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken
There certainly is a place for the milk of the gospel for those who are new converts. But there’s also a place for the meat. If we only have the milk and then corrupt even that with false doctrine and practices we will fall and be broken.
Isaiah 28 also speaks of a tempest of destruction which is coming upon the church (Ephraim).
The prophets are erring through wine (wine of Babylon/worldliness). They stumble in vision. This is what the Lord says.
He says similar things in many places in the scriptures.
Nowhere does He say that it is okay for true prophets to teach false doctrine, make accommodations to the world, or stop denouncing wickedness. He does not say that it’s okay that the church has departed from what was originally restored.
I don’t hold myself up as a light. I’m a sinner. I am however trying to press forward, holding on to the iron rod (word of God) until I come to the tree of life and partake of the love of God.
The church has been falling deeper and deeper into apostasy from top to bottom for a long time now.
History proves this as do the scriptures. I wish it wasn’t so.
I wish that your theory about the brethren only doing what God tells them were true, but it isn’t.
It’s a tough pill to swallow, but it’s the truth.
I could quote you endless scriptures and statements from previous church leaders to prove that sadly the church is sick from the head (prophet) down to the feet (rank and file member). There is no soundness in it anymore.
Having said this, if you can provide some more scriptures defending your take or showing me to be in error, I’ll be happy to take a look.
I have a couple of articles on there. Nothing too exciting, just a few thoughts as I have time to write, which isn’t often. My thoughts on there are incomplete at best.
My last post has links to papers written by a scholar named Robert Smith. You might find his work interesting. He has done extensive research into the apostasy of the LDS church and what the scriptures say about it and what is coming next.
James, I have brought more truth to more people than Nelsen and Monson ever did.Have explained through handing out of books and dvds systematic evils, and iniquities of this world,not violations of outward sins.
I have not sugar coated the world in sophistry,and phatom devils.
Not blamed the Marlboro man,Joe Camel and Jack Daniels for secret combination to assuage members, and Spoke lullabies to the their conscience
Don’t confuse the Church with Gospel
In all the years of publishing advice in the various church magazines.
Have they even tried to explain how our financial system works?(and being robbed) Or have they given the same old make more out of less of your budget?
How many times have you heard them use the story of Amlickiah as a example of modern day secret combinations?
Helaman’s fight with judges and lawyers,enforced priestcraft,and on and on!!
Why?? These guys are the problem, not the solution.
Would you have been one of Judas,an Peters groupies back in the day. How did that turn out for them?
Nelson like the rest of the leaders recieve there marching orders from the Lawyers,and marketing gooroo’s at C.O.B. That mystically gets vetted, and sanitized for public consumption.
How else would California prop 8 in 2008 turn into a total reversal of helping the Homos( I assume you have seen the latest from the Brethren getting behind hate crime legislation).
I know its a bitter pill ,but best to take it now as to be judged later for ignoring warnings.
I believe the only group that fits the definition of abominable church is Gov-Co………I.E. the Feds.Look it up
I know a lot of members think it is the Catholic Church……….
………..but how many rights did father O’Brian steal from you?
Did sister Mary force you to pay for neighbor 0% interest car loan/ Is Jerry Falwell coming to your house and putting a gun to your head to pay for public educating his Kids??
How about Joe Camel?Did he force you to partake of his product?
Is Joe and The Bud man really a enemy of agency??
Who does force you to pay at their temples of worship?(capitals)
Owyhee Cowboy, you have a good point, and the government has taken the 1st amendment out of context in order to make the state the church, and forcing churches into submission through things such as the 1954 johnson amendment. The lds church, like the other corporate churches, is a part of this stucture, and cede ground to the satanic government and the evil culture it creates constantly. I have never blamed the marlboro man, though corporations are tied into this structure as well. The state may be the abominable church, you very well may have a point. Though there was a time when the catholic church had very real political power (even asserting sovereignty over governments, look up the investiture controversy) and certainly would qualify under that, though it doesn’t have the power it used to.
@James G. I think you are absolutely right. I have felt the same way. I just feel sad, because I don’t know how to protect my children from false doctrines when the teachings against those worldly philosophies have been removed or covered up. I feel that it is somehow a protection for those who will not be taught certain things. They can’t be held accountable for rejecting things they have not been taught. I also feel (maybe I’m wrong) that the generation that had those teachings and then had them removed is being cursed by the removal of those teachings. It’s sad to me that I who didn’t embrace the femenism of the world get to partake of what feels to me like a curse.The things that are no longer taught were a protection against the philosophies of the world and make it easier to recognize truth and error and now those protections are gone or at least that’s how it feels to me. I don’t know how to teach my kids what they need to know in order for them to be prepared spiritually. The world’s philosophies have become so accepted by the mainstream membership of the church, that I as the parent have an extremely difficult time competing against the false doctrines that they are being taught in their classes at church and at the lds based private school that they attend. The leaders haven’t gone astray, it’s the general membership of the church who have rejected the truths declared by the prophets in favor of the teachings of the world. At this point if I try to teach the kids the truth, it’s me who appears to be teaching evil (in the eyes of the world) because the truth is contrary to what much of the membership believes. Who are my kids going to believe? Me or everyone else at church? I know the true doctrine of the church inclues the Patriarchal Order. It’s also hard when the family patriarch in our home (who I’m supposed to follow) is very liberal in his ideology and holds most politically correct philosophies as his own beliefs and to some degree rejects the patriarchal order in favor of popular femenists ideology so as no to appear sexist. I don’t know how to move forward in my efforts to raise up a righteous posterity. Any advise?
The Melchizedek Priesthood is a patriarchal priesthood. With the Restoration of the Melchizedek Priesthood and the sacred ordinances of that priesthood the patriarchal order is established.
As John A. Widtsoe has taught “Under Adam the ordinances of the Gospel were practiced, the righteous were organized into the Church, even as today, and the authority of the Priesthood was transmitted by Adam to his children, and by them to their children, so that the precious gift might not be lost.” “The Patriarchal order of this Priesthood was confirmed to be handed down from father to son, and rightly belongs to the literal descendants of the chosen seed, to whom the promises were made” (Priesthood and Church Government pg. 3).
Pres. Joseph F. Smith has written “The rights of fatherhood in all faithful, worthy men are paramount, and should be recognized by all other men holding positions or callings on the Priesthood. To make this idea plainer we will say as an example of our idea, we do not consider it proper in a Bishop or other officer to suggest that the son of such a man (the son himself not being the head of a family, but living with his father) be called upon a mission without first consulting the father. the Priesthood was originally exercised in the patriarchal order; those who held it exercised their power firstly by right of their fatherhood. It is so with the great Elohim. This first and strongest claim on our love, reverence and obedience is based on the fact that He is the Father, the Creator of all mankind” (Gospel Doctrine pg. 147).
John A. Widtsoe also wrote “The home, composed of father, mother and children, is the unit of all society. The human family is but the total of individual families or homes. The home is the ultimate unit of the Church. In the end as in the beginning the home will be the unit of progress and government.” “The family, a group of intelligent beings, must be organized, else chaos results. Just as there is but one Priesthood, but many offices in it, so every member of the family circle has equal claims upon the blessings of the home, but is assigned different tasks in connection with family life. There must be a presiding authority in the family. The father is the head or president, or spokesman of the family. This arrangement is of divine origin. It also conforms to physical and physiological laws under which humanity live. A home, as viewed by the Church, is composed of a family group, so organized as to be presided over by the father, under the authority and in the spirit of the Priesthood conferred upon him. The position which men occupy in the family, and especially those who hold the Melchizedek Priesthood, is one of first importance and should be clearly recognized and maintained in the order and with the authority which God conferred upon man in placing him at the head of his household” (Priesthood and Church Government pg. 80-81).
Bruce R. McConkie wrote “The Lord’s government is patriarchal in nature. The family unit is the center. In preexistence he was the Father of spirits.” “Those married in the temple in the new and everlasting covenant of marriage become inheritors of all the blessings of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and all the patriarchs and thereby enter into the patriarchal order. If the participating parties abide in the eternal marriage covenant, they shall reap the full blessings of patriarchal heirship in eternity where the patriarchal order will be the order of government and rule” (Mormon Doctrine pg. 559).
The prophet Joseph Smith taught concerning ordinances of the Melchizedek priesthood “It was the design of the councils of heaven before the world was, that the principles and laws of the priesthood should be predicated upon the gathering of the people in every age of the world. Jesus did everything to gather the people, and they would not be gathered, and He therefore poured out curses upon them. Ordinances instituted in the heavens before the foundation of the world, in the priesthood, for the salvation of men, are not to be altered or changed. All must be saved on the same principles” (Joseph Smith TPJS pg. 308).
Robert J. Mathews has said “We need to know that all things are governed by law. ‘Mine house is a house of order saith the Lord God. Not a house of confusion.’ The Lord has given priesthood laws that govern everything. …The Prophet Joseph Smith said, ‘The great thing for us to know is to comprehend what God did institute before the foundation of the world.’ Joseph Smith also said “that ordinances instituted in the heavens before the foundation of the world in the priesthood for the salvation of man are not to be altered or changed. All must be saved on the same principles.” Furthermore the Lord has said, that he will not accept on this earth any offerings or ordinances that were not appointed of the Father and the Son before the world was made” (D&C 132:10-11).
The changes made to the sacred ordinances of the Melchizedek priesthood by Russell Nelson at the beginning of the year 2019 dismantle the patriarchal order of the priesthood. The very safety mechanisms of the ordinances (endowment & sealing) to protect the patriarchal order have been removed. There’s now a glaring disconnect between the covenants made between man and woman and the patriarchal elements of the Melchizedek priesthood portions of the endowment. The changes made by Russell Nelson now make the patriarchal grip a farce. The whole structure surrounding the patriarchal grip are now gone. Which is a direct assault on the very atonement connected with that grip and order – the patriarchal order. Essentially the “everlasting covenant” that was restored is now broken. One can’t remove the patriarchal elements of the patriarchal priesthood and claim that it is part of the restoration. Removing the patriarchal elements is breaking the covenant. It’s in line with Isaiah’s lament “The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate; therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left” (Isaiah 24:5-6).
Do you accept or reject the recent changes in the temple by the First Presidency and apostles?
How is that relevant to the post? Are you here to cause contention? This site is for latter-day saints to support the mission of the Church.
Your post about patriarchy was put up the day after the most radical change to the temple ceremony that has occurred in a very long time — perhaps the most radical change to date. The changes were obviously in response to feminist concerns about the previously overtly patriarchal stance of the temple ceremony — and appears to have addressed all (or nearly all) concerns by feminists about the patriarchal aspects of the temple.
So perhaps you might understand my question when considering the timing of your post.
With your pro-patriarchal post, I’m curious how you feel about the pro-feminist changes to the temple.
Clair,
The changes are in line with Patriarchy. They just obscure those doctrines and laws that are too much for the tares in the hopes that they will study and seek the truths that will bring them happiness. For example, see the Proclamation on the Family for big glaring hints. Then see Genesis and the Pearl of Great price for more. You cannot and will not obtain exaltation or eternal joy by rejecting eternal celestial truths or trying to remain in ignorance of them. As Joseph said, ” No man can be saved in ignorance”
I’m unaware of recent temple changes? What exactly are you referring to?
What was the change in the temple ceremony?
As a lds convert lds member who is inactive of the church of jesus christ of latter day saints i support the feminists changes. I have always felt that the women should be allowed to do things in the church as. Equals. I think in the past that male patriarchy has gone to. The extreme not allowing women equal to serve in. The. Church. I am all. For women being ordained and being in the. Priesthood. God is no respector of persons. We are all suppose to be created equally. Male patriarchy should not be threatened by matriarchy. The male should see women as equals. I am all for women ministers and pastors at other churches. There are a lot of God fearing men and God fearing women pastors and reverands and ministers out their serving the lord. Ee are to look at the good in all things. In the past temple ceremonies eve was not allowed to speak. A women should be allowed to speak preach and teach the same equally as men do. Prevouis women like sonia johnson were a great inspiration and a start to the feminists. We all have the freedom of speech and freed agency to have our beliefs and views. No man and women should be reprimanded or accused of causing strife and contention just because they are asking questions and have a differant point of view then the traditionalists view. We live in a 21st century millenial world today that most. Young millenials in this generation want spirituality not organized religion institutionalized. Religion and dogma. Personal spirituality is the big major paradign shift effecting not only the lds church but all other denominations. Traditionally
I think your insight administrator, on the new changes to the temple ceremony; is quite relevant to your blog.
If you don’t support the changes, then you are the APOSTATE.
According to the official website, the definition of the “APOSTASY” is, “When individuals or groups of people turn away from the principles of the gospel, they are in a state of apostasy. ”
https://www.lds.org/topics/apostasy?lang=eng
From an article by Jana Riess (Religous News Service):
“The Salt Lake Tribune is reporting from a witness who went through the temple Wednesday that important elements have indeed been altered, including:
GONE: women’s promise to hearken to their husbands, as the husbands hearken directly to the Lord. Men are no longer intermediaries between women and God in the temple.
EXPANDED: the role of Eve, who previously had no dialogue after the expulsion from Eden, and is now purportedly more loquacious than Satan.
UNITED: women and men covenanting together to serve God, with the same promises, rather than covenanting separately with slightly different wording.
Over the last day I have also heard other attendees reporting about their experiences, and the changes sound far-reaching. This is not just window dressing, but a full overhaul of many aspects of the temple. Without going into detail, I understand that these changes include:
A simplification of ritual clothing and how it is used
A shorter overall length to the ceremony, with some repetitive language eliminated or changed
A different temple movie that is primarily composed of still shots with narration rather than a live action film
Gender equality in the language of the sealing ceremony, where the bride and groom now apparently make the same promises to each other”
Not supporting the feminist changes made to the endowment does not make one an apostate.
Now changing the ordinances in a way that minimizes the patriarchal order and God ordained husband/wife relationships contained in the scriptures, well that might constitute apostasy…
Apostasy is turning away from God and his teachings. Apostasy is not refusing to blindly go along with those who are turning away from God and his teachings.
What do the scriptures say about the husband wife relationship?
The husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church.
Did Christ rule over the church with an iron fist?
No, he have his life for the church.
This is perfectly in line with the previous endowment.
Feminists cried foul long enough and the brethren finally caved.
That looks like apostasy to me…
Clair…
If you seriously think this is the most radical change to the temple ceremony, then you are seriously ill-read.
As a student of Church History, especially that history including the Prophet Joseph Smith and again the history of the early church that they Apostle Paul preached, Patriarchy played a smaller role that many think. For example, in the early letters that Paul wrote, women were regarded very highly and had many active roles in the gospel alongside men. The later epistiles, sometimes referred to as the pastoral epistiles, the ones that call on women to “keep silence and submit”, are actually thought by most Bible scholars to not have even been written by Paul, but rather came along later, having been written by someone else in Paul’s name. President Nelson is spot on.
Eliza,
From an agenda-driven set of changes (the agenda being to equalize the roles of men and women) I’m not aware of any set of changes that were bigger than this. However there may be other changes that were more numerous, or by some other measures may have been bigger.
BTW, I am published in Mormon history, present papers to conference on a regular basis, manage ‘Today in Mormon History’, etc… :-)
Historical societies usually favor papers that promote their agenda.
Great point Tom — and that matches my understanding too. The forged letter from Paul represents the common ideology of Roman culture from that time — and seems in opposition to Jesus’s actions regarding women. Jesus was always promoting women and standing against the cultural male-centric patriarchal norms of the time.
It’s a good thing we have the Joseph Smith Translation to clear up confusion on the matter.
Clair
Well then you are either blind or simply missing a huge gaping hole.
Your credentials mean little apparently if this college drop out knows what you are forgetting.
Eliza.
Clair
I highly disagree. By this measure and others, this change is not the largest.
Your credentials are meaningless if this college drop out can see something you can’t.
Eliza
This prophesy has to do with the last days.
“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.” Isaiah 24:5-7
The burning is coming.
“With the division of labour, in which all these contradictions are implicit, and which in its turn is based on the natural division of labour in the family and the separation of society into individual families opposed to one another, is given simultaneously the distribution, and indeed the unequal distribution, both quantitative and qualitative, of labour and its products, hence property; the nucleus, the first form, of which lies in the family, where wife and children are the slaves of the husband. This latent slavery in the family, though still very crude, is the first property.” Karl Marx
Excellent observation Austin.
The claim has always been that the though the way in which the endowment is performed has changed somewhat to fit the needs of the times, the ordinances themselves have not changed.
Of course now a woman is no longer sealed to her husband and his patriarchal line, instead they are sealed to each other.
That’s a changed ordinance. It’s really not much different, if at all, to changing baptism from immersion to sprinkling.
Joseph Smith said that ordinances necessary for salvation are not to be changed as all have to be saved under the same principles.
So unless we want to say that the sealing ordinance is not necessary for salvation, we have no right to change it.
Of course the church has the answer to satisfy the masses. The restoration is on going so anything and everything can be changed. It’s all good, nothing to worry about. All is well in Zion. Take it easy, no need to get worked up.
It is so telling that Mormon feminists are high fiving each other all over the internet as soon as word of the changes came out.
They believe they are helping to further the restoration, by destroying core teachings and practices of the church from the original restoration.
Apparently God wasn’t comfortable telling Joseph Smith that the Biblical teachings on marriage and the roles of men and women were sexist doctrines of the devil, so He just told Joseph to maintain the status quo and even gave him some modern revelation confirming the Satanic sexist doctrines on marriage and the roles of men and women.
This is what the feminists would have us believe.
Unfortunately most members just nod along.
We as a people have apparently forgotten that Zion can only be built up upon the principles of the celestial kingdom, not upon watered down doctrines that have been made to conform with the views of the world.
Feminist are followers of Karl Marx they are not followers of Christ.
Regarding the evolution of the endowment, personally I see the recent changes as migrating away from an older, flawed understanding of what Jesus taught. In addition to the problem of modifications of the text of Paul, Paul never spent time learning from Jesus, and was often at odds with the other apostles (who spent a lot of time with Jesus). The idea that women should be silent, and can access God only through their husbands — stands in stark opposition to the the teachings of Jesus who continually lifted up the role of women. He promoted a level playing field where all had full access to the kingdom of heaven.
The dominant Roman culture, however, taught that the powerful had access to God, and the disenfranchised did not. Jesus challenged Roman culture directly by saing the “meek would inherite the earth” or the poor who would inherit the kingdom of God (and a number of related sayings). The teachings ascribed to Paul regarding women fit perfectly into Roman culture and against the teachings of Jesus. That was what was so radical about Christianity. Everyone, including women, had full access to God.
Today, we see the LDS endowment taking a closer step toward the Christian ideal that God loves both men and women equally. I thihk we should celebrate those changes.
The influence of a modern American Marxist society is having repercussions upon the Restoration. It is Marxist doctrine to believe:
“In the family, he [the man] is the bourgeois; the wife represents the proletariat.”
“Similarly, the peculiar character of man’s domination over woman in the modern family, and the necessity, as well as the manner, of establishing real social equality between the two, will be brought out into full relief only when both are completely equal before the law. It will then become evident that the first premise for the emancipation of women is the reintroduction of the entire female sex into public industry; and that this again demands that the quality possessed by the individual family of being the economic unit of soceity be abolished.” Karl Marx & Friedrich Engels
Randy, what ever label one places on equality seems irrelevant to the merit of equality. Equal and fair treatment is not evil, it is good, regardless of whether Marx, or anyone else said it.
There is nothing in the writings of Paul in Corinthians or anywhere else in the scriptures that suggest that God doesn’t love men and women equally.
Same goes for the previous teachings in the endowment.
God’s house is a house of order however, and the scriptures make it clear that God put the man before the woman.
This is not PC today of course, but it has nothing to do with God supposedly loving women less.
Sadly feminists cried foul long enough and got enough women on board with this idea that God putting the man before the women, or better said the husband before the wife, is sexist and cruel to women. Eventually the brethren decided to give into these false ideas and caved.
They actually caved along time ago in this area when it came to what was taught in church, but the temple still had it right until the recent changes.
I guess we’ll see what happens next. This change is hardly the only problem in the church today. It’s merely the tip of the iceberg.
Marxism and its philosophy of equality is poison to the gospel of Jesus Christ. Christ taught that we are to be ‘one’ not equal.
This is what equality means. It literal destroys the family.
“The position of the men thus undergoes considerable change. With the passage of the means of production into common property, the individual family ceases to be the economic unit of society. Private housekeeping is transformed into a social industry. The care and education of the children becomes a public matter. Society takes care of all children equally, irrespective of whether they are born in wedlock or not. Thus, the anxiety about the ‘consequences,’ which is today the most important social factor-both moral and economic-that hinders a girl from giving herself freely to the man she loves, disappears. Will this not be cause enough for a gradual rise of more unrestrained sexual intercourse, and along with it, a more lenient public opinion regarding virginal honour and feminine shame?”
Karl Marx & Friedrich Engels
Watchman said: “the scriptures make it clear that God put the man before the woman.”
I’d argue that authors of various scripture included their own world-view assumptions in their writings. Some of them inserted the patriarchal views of their time into their writings. When women are removed from direct access to God in the temple or elsewhere, that does not follow the spirit of what Christ taught. That feels more Old testament / letter-of-the-law / Pharasee-ish. For example, when Brigham Young taught than menstruating women should not go to the temple, I think he was imposing his patriarchal world-view, some of which he picked up from the patriarchal-world-view of some authors in the Old Testament. Its hard to imagine Jesus teaching the same thing.
To me, it seems contradictory to suggest that God loves women as much as men, but excludes them from speaking in church, symbolically being in God presence in the Temple, or obeying God through indirectly through their husband.
Clair,
I get what your saying, I really do. It’s tough when the philosophies of men (and feminists) contradict the word of God in the scriptures. The ideas of the world are very appealing.
You said you believe that some of the men who wrote the scriptures inserted ideas from their own Patriarchal world view which were not from God.
In essence you want to pick and choose what parts of the scriptures you will believe. I believe this is a very dangerous path to take.
Here’s a couple of verses from Moses 4 that relate to the endowment. This is God speaking to Adam and Eve after they had both partake of the forbidden fruit.
22 Unto the woman, I, the Lord God, said: I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception. In sorrow thou shalt bring forth children, and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
23 And unto Adam, I, the Lord God, said: Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the fruit of the tree of which I commanded thee, saying—Thou shalt not eat of it, cursed shall be the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.
24 Thorns also, and thistles shall it bring forth to thee, and thou shalt eat the herb of the field.
25 By the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, until thou shalt return unto the ground—for thou shalt surely die—for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou wast, and unto dust shalt thou return.
26 And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living; for thus have I, the Lord God, called the first of all women, which are many.
Which version of the endowment matches the word of God in the scriptures? The previous version or the new one?
This is from the JST mind you, so if it contains substantial false doctrine there really is no scripture we can trust is there?
Actually the previous version of the endowment was already a step towards caving to feminism. The pre 1990 endowment matches the scriptures the closest.
Didn’t the primitive Christian church fall into apostasy by slowly changing ordinances and teachings contrary to the scriptures and original teachings of Christ and his apostles?
How can we do the same and be justified?
Are we not following the same path into apostasy as Christ’s ancient church?
Clair Barrus writes like a modern-day Korihor. I’d hate to be in her shoes.
LDS Watchman
You are right about this subject, the church has caved to feminist pressure, I was just reading some quotes by president Howard W. Hunter where he said women shouldn’t lower themselves to the level of men and that they are spiritually superior to men,(if so than wouldn’t women have the priesthood instead? Not saying men are necessarily superior spiritually but I don’t see how men would be inferior) it seems like even when they are trying to encourage traditional femininity in a material way they promote the idea of feminism. I don’t mean to be overly critical of president Hunter, but this is how I take his quotes as found here.
https://www.lds.org/manual/eternal-marriage-student-manual/differences-inherent-between-men-and-women?lang=eng
Also, Brigham Young said that if the church were to allow priesthood for blacks (without all whites getting it first to my understanding)and race-mixing the church must go to its destruction.
http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/sermons_talks_interviews/brigham1852feb5_priesthoodandblacks.htm
I know that’s off-topic but I think it’s relevant to show how the church has fallen and changed from its older principles.
Here is a Joseph Smith discourse that is not well known. He gave this in Nauvoo and interprets the parable of the twelve olive trees as being something to come, rather than being about Missouri (everyone assumed it was about Missouri).
—–
Discourse, circa 19 July 1840, as Reported by Unknown Scribe–A
Source Note
Document Transcript
A Few Items from a Discourse Delivered by Joseph Smith, July 19, 1840.
Read a chapter in [Ezekiel?] concluding with this saying and when all
these things come to pass and Lo they will come then shall you know
that a Prophet hath been among you.
Afterwards read the parable of the 12 olive trees, and said speaking of the Land of Zion:— It consisted of all North and South America, but that any place where the Saints gather is Zion which every righteous man will build up for a place of safety for his children. The Olive trees are 12 stakes which are yet to be built not the Temple in Jackson County as some suppose, for while the 12 stakes are being built we will be at peace but the nations of the earth will be at war: Our cry from the first has been for peace and we will continue pleading like the widow at the feet of the unjust Judge, but we may plead at the feet of magistrates and at the feet of Judges, at the feet of Governors and at the feet of Senators, at the feet of Presidents for 8 years it will be of no avail, we shall find no favor in any of the Courts of this Government. The redemption of Zion is, the redemption of all North and South America, and those 12 stakes must be built up before the redemption of Zion can take place, and those who refuse to gather and build when they are commanded to do so, cease to be saviors of men and are thenceforth good for nothing but shall be cast out and trodden underfeet of men for their trans [p. 1]gression]-as Reed Peck was when he applied in the name of an apostate for business in a store in Quincy. They told him that they wanted no apostates round them and showed him the door. At this same store the Authorities of the Church could have obtained almost any amount of credit they could have asked——
*We shall build the Zion of the Lord in peace until the servants of that Lord shall begin to lay the foundation of a great and high watch Tower and then shall they begin to say within themselves what need hath my Lord of this tower seeing this is a time of peace, etc. Then the Enemy shall come as a thief in the night and scatter the servants abroad when the seed of these 12 olive trees are scattered abroad they will wake up the nations of the whole earth. Even this nation will be on the very verge of crumbling to pieces and tumbling to the ground and when the Constitution is upon the brink of ruin this people will be the Staff up[on] which the Nation shall lean and they shall bear the Constitution away from the very verge of destruction— Then shall the Lord say: Go tell all my servants who are the strength of mine house, my young men and middle aged &c., Come to the land of my vineyard and fight the battle of the Lord— Then the Kings and Queens shall come, then the rulers of the earth shall come, then shall all Saints come, yea the foreign Saints shall come to fight for the land of my vineyard, for in this thing shall be their safety and they will have no power to choose but will come as a man fleeth from a sudden destruction— But before [p. 2] this the time shall be these who are now my friends shall become my enemies and shall seek to take my life and there are those now before me who will more furiously pursue me, more diligently seek my life and be more blood-thirsty upon my track than ever were the Missouri mobbers, you say among yourselves as did them of old time, “Is it I? is it I? but I know these things by the visions of the Almighty.]-
But brethren come ye, yea come all of you who can come and go to with your mights and build up the cities of the Lord and whosoever will let him come and partake of the poverty of Nauvoo freely for those who partake of her poverty shall also partake of her prosperity and it is now wisdom in God that we should enter into as compact a city as possible. For Zion and Jerusalem must both be built up before the coming of Christ. How long will it take to do this 10 years, yes more than 40 years will pass before this work will be accomplished and when these cities are built then shall the coming of the Son of Man be. Now let all who can coolly and deliberately dispose of their property come up and give of their substance to the Lord that the hearts of the poor may be comforted and all may worship God together in holiness of heart. Come brethren, come all of you— And I prophecy in the name of the Lord that the State of Illinois shall become a great and mighty mountain, a city set upon a hill that cannot be hid and a great [candle?] that giveth light to the world. The city of Nauvoo also shall become the greatest city in the [p. 3] whole world. Now brethren I obligate myself to build as great a Temple as ever Solomon did if the Church will back me up, moreover, it shall not impoverish any man but enrich thousands and I prophecy that the time shall be when these Saints shall ride proudly over the mountains of Missouriand no Gentile dog nor Missouri dog shall dare lift a tongue against them, but will lick up the dust from beneath their feet, and I pray the Father that many here may realize this and see it with their eyes, and if it should be the -[stretching his hand towards the place and in a melancholy tone that made all hearts tremble]- will of God that I might live to behold that temple completed and finished from the foundation to the top stone I will say— Oh Lord it is enough, let thy servant depart in peace which is my earnest prayer in the name of the Lord Jesus, Amen.
On this day the Stake of Macedonia over which Father John Smith
presided was publicly appointed.
*Curse that man who says to his neighbor, you are a mean man because you do not believe as I do. I now invite all liberal minded men to come up to Nauvoo and help to build up the City of our God. We are not greatly distressed, no, nor never will be. This is the principle place of gathering therefore let the brethren begin to roll in like clouds, and we will sell you lots if you are able to pay for them and if not you shall have them without money and without price. The greater blessing is unto those who came in [p. 4] times of adversity. For many will come to us in times of prosperity that will stand at the corners of the streets saying with long pharisaical faces to those that come after them, don’t go near brother Joseph don’t go near the Authorities of the Church for they will pick your pockets, they will rob you of all your money. Thus will they breed in our midst a spirit of dissatisfaction and distrust that will end in persecution and distress. Now from this hour bring everything you can bring and build a Temple unto the Lord, a House unto the mighty God of Jacob. We will build upon the top of this Temple a great Observatory, a great and high watch tower, and in the top thereof we will suspend a tremendous bell that when it is rung shall rouse the inhabitants of Madison, wake up the people of Warsaw and sound in the ears of men Carthage Then comes the ancient records, yea all of them dig them, yes bring them forth speedily. Then shall the poor be fed by the curious who shall come from all parts of the world to see this wonderful Temple. Yea I prophecy that pleasure parties shall come from England to see the Mammoth and like the Queen of Sheba shall say— the half never was told them. School houses shall be built here and high schools shall be established and the great men of the earth shall send their sons here to board while they are receiving their education among us and even noblemen shall crave the privilege of educating their children with us, and these poor Saints shall chink [p. 5] in their pockets the money of these proud men received from such as come and dwell with us. Which holds the keys of entrance into the Kingdom. Then the three signs which were given were conclusive. The dove which sat upon his shoulder was a sure testimony that he was of God. Brethren be not deceived nor doubtful of this fact, a spirit of a good man or an angel from heaven who has not a body will never undertake to shake hands with you for he knows you cannot perceive his touch and never will extend his hand, but any spirit or body that is attended by a dove you may know to be a pure spirit, thus you may in some measure detect the spirits who may come unto you. John was great in that he baptized Jesus and for this cause Jesus saith Among them that are born of woman there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist. But again he says from the days of John the Baptist till the Kingdom of Heaven suffereth violence and the violent taketh it by force. Jesus as I said could not enter except by the administration of John Although John was not a restorer but a forerunner. It was not the lawful priests who rejected Jesus but the self made priests. Those who were priests lawfully received the Savior in his station which was given him by the law. [p. 6]
I have yet to get to the temple to experience the changes, but am anxious to do so. Based solely on descriptions here, I must note that the gender relationships in the just replaced endowment were not in harmony with decades of 1st Presidency teachings that regard marriage as an “equal partnership.” I expect to be very pleased by the adjustments that The Brethren have made in the endowment ceremony.
Nephite Rationalist,
Interesting about what Howard W. Hunter said.
That’s pretty feminist alright. From the feminist perspective men are evil, especially white, heterosexual, Christian men.
Great question on blacks getting the priesthood.
It comes down to two options:
Either Brigham Young was a racist bigot and was wrong about what he said or Spencer W. Kimball and the rest of the brethren did a very bad thing in 1978.
What I find most interesting is that the very promises of blacks one day being eligible for the priesthood that Kimball used to justify the “revelation” giving blacks the priesthood actually forbid what he did.
Brigham Young and others said they could/would get the priesthood after the millennium and after the curse (dark skin) had been removed.
So either way Kimball really wasn’t justified in giving them the priesthood.
The scriptures back brother Brigham up in my book. Abraham 1 and Moses 7 back him up as do several other scriptures.
This scripture is particularly interesting in regards to your question:
Referring to the New Jerusalem in the last days Zechariah prophesied:
20 ¶ In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, Holiness unto the Lord; and the pots in the Lord’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.
(Zechariah 14)
This suggests that the Canaanites (blacks) will no longer be allowed in the temple during the millennium. As the Canaanites are referred to as the black race who were descendents of Cain who couldn’t hold the priesthood.
That is of course provided that Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and every church president before 1978 were right that blacks are descendents of Cain and Canaanites.
It’s a big problem alright. It’s quite possible that Brigham Young was right and that the church is now headed for certain destruction by given blacks the priesthood, allowing them into the temple, and permitting interracial marriage with them.
As a keen observer who was first endowed in 1975, I can assure anyone who’s interested that the recent changes made to the temple endowment are, in actuality, nothing more than a continuation of an ongoing process of the incremental withdrawal of much of the more sacred content of the endowment, and this so as to not offend those who are not yet ready and able to internalize the stronger “meat” (mysteries of godliness) of the kingdom of God.
For anyone who had two brain cells to rub together back in 1990, it was more than painfully obvious that the “changes” made to the endowment back then were nothing more or less than a withdrawal of many sacred components of the endowment, so as to not offend the sensibilities of members who were not spiritually mature enough to be able to digest stronger meat.
So too with the recent changes, as now even more of the sacred content of the endowment has been withdrawn from view because today many of members are even less able to absorb and be edified by exposure to the deeper mysteries of the gospel than those of the recent past.
The leaders of the Church had no choice but to “dumb down” the endowment because, in a postmodern world saturated with the false gospels of Marxism and feminism, the sacred content of the previous endowment was falling on deaf ears and doing more harm than good. Too many members of the Church were trampling on sacred things and now more sacred things have been withdrawn from view. Congratulations…
Amen Theo, That is exactly right. Since we aren’t in the temple, I am not comfortable giving detailed explanations of why what Theo is saying is exactly right, but it is. In principle what is happening here is not a “changing” of the ordinances. It is a purposeful dumbing down or shrouding of the portions that were previously plain and precious but that most members no longer appreciate or would listen to. so then it acts as condemnation on them to be presented with truth that they reject in favor of their wicked and evil feminist ideals which they love more than God. I will say that before the minimalist version of the endowment is presented, a statement by the first presidency is given which clearly states that the ordinance has not been changed. Of course the tare feminists ignore that and instead jump to the conclusion that it has been changed. They pick and choose and are unstable in all their ways.
I would be very curious from anyone if a similar statement was read at the start of the 1990 endowment changes or not?
If you realize this from the outstart, then when you hear the wording changes and other changes, you can ask for the spirit to show you how it has not changed and it become very clear, by revelation how this is the case. Nothing has changed about the commitment. What is different is that the wording used is more ambiguous so that only by revelation will you be able to fully understand and implement the eternal laws presented to claim the blessings promised.
Remember that just before these changes took place, President Nelson said in very direct and open terms the following. “In coming days, it will NOT BE POSSIBLE TO SURVIVE SPIRITUALLY without the guiding, directing, comforting, and constant influence of the Holy Ghost.”
My personal impression, was that he meant that very literally. He meant that not only would the world step up it attacks and pressure on the saints to deny the Christ by siding with Marxists, Feminists and Statists (Read unaware Baal Worshippers) but that the saints would not be able to simply get answers from the Brethren as they used too. President Nelson knew very well the endowment was going to be dumbded down. No one going throught he new endowment can honestly say that a ton is not simplified and glossed over. In 1990 I do know a very long and explanatory portion of the endowment meant to review and clarify much of what it said was removed. the trend is clear that the endowment is being trimmed and simplified and the deeper truths are being hidden. They are still there but they can only be found by revelation now.
When you go through imagine your children, with no knowledge of the 1990 changes or the recent ones, seeing only that endowment for the first time. How much will it really tell them? Very little compared to what was once available. I think the saints greatly underestimate the level to which the Lord will allow us to reject his gospel and walk away from truths. He wont change them but he will change the wording so that we can choose how to interpret those words and show him who we really are. that’s whats going on.
If we walk away from the Gospel towards the left and accept the ideas of the world we will not have eternal life or eternal spouse or eternal posterity. AND if we appoint ourselves the judges of the prophets and correct our heads by condemning them for doing only that which the Lord has told them to do in dumbing down the gospel to the level of disobedience of the saints, we are veering off to the right and will also not have eternal life or spouse or posterity. That’s the truth. Either you know the Lord is at the head or you don’t. It really is as simple as that.
Once I determined that I would be true to what I already knew and that the Lord not only lived by ruled over his errant and vagrant bride, the church, was I able to see what was really going on. The same pattern that occurs in EVERY DISPENSATION to lose the gospel is occurring now and its plain to see. but it isn’t the leaderships fault. Its the saints. its always been the saints fault to claim or reject the blessings of the gospel by obedience to his laws.
The comments of the priesthood ban, Plural marriage, and other issues can all be understood clearly once we accept the Lord is ruling his church and ask the spirit to help us understand. But that will only come if we suspend a spirit of judgement and ask to understand and promise to stand true to our covenants no matter what anyone else is doing.
Theo Suhaka, that is an interesting point you made, I am a new member of the church and am not old enough to know about that anyway, I will keep that in mind as I learn more about the temple.
Thank you for your post, i’m glad to know i’m not alone, it is clear that the church has been corrupted as seen by feminism, race-mixing, and other things. How can we preserve the spiritual vitality of the gospel when the churh keeps giving in to its enemies?
I absolutely appreciate this site.
Through the years I have read many so called LDS sites. The last ten years the people who own these sites, and the people who write articles for these sites, have shown their true colors…….Alt Left Socialist Communists Anti American, Anti Christian, Anti Male, Anti Caucasion, Anti LDS religion, Anti Jew, and on and on.
Today I was reading a blog that has stayed mainly on the conservative side. Unfortunately the article I read today on that site has the typical socialist communist regressive nonsense. That site has been slowly going to the Marxist Alinsky side.
Thank you for another great article. It is wonderful to know that there are other LDS members who think like I do and stay true to what is right and good.
My question would be why our current prophets, seers, and revelators do not boldly call us to repentance for our many sins and for the great corruption that is now in the church?
Why doesn’t our prophet President Nelson preach out against feminism? Why does he not raise the warning voice as the watchman on the tower against mothers going to work when it isn’t absolutely necessary? Why doesn’t he speak out against the immodesty of our wives and daughters? Why doesn’t he tell women to listen to their husbands and follow their council, rather than letting them believe that they should rule their husbands?
Has God forbidden him to speak or is he afraid to?
What good does it do to water the gospel down?
The church is no longer leading people to the Celestial kingdom if we allow such corruption into our midst and do nothing about it.
Is this not what Isaiah is referring to when he declared:
2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the Lord hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me.
3 The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master’s crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider.
4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the Lord, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.
5 ¶ Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.
6 From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.
Why do church publications show mixed race marriages?
Why do we have idols of Christ (Christus statues) in our visitor centers at our temples?
Why do we permit blacks to have the priesthood and enter temples without the curse first being removed?
I could make a list of dozens and dozens of things like this and not one peep from our prophet against it, in fact our prophet and the rest of our apostles promote all of these things?
Has God changed? Does he no longer have his true prophets speak hard, but true things to his people?
Or are the men we sustain as prophets speaking from their own hearts and not from God?
Spot on, Watchmen!
These leaders are counterfeit.
Would Abanadi,Captain Moroni,Alma,Helaman,Nephi and the rest
tolerate being dictated to??
They have gave into the Homosexuals,feminists,politicians,
all for the honors of men.
What is amazing to me is the sycophant,drooling,members that
blindly tolerate the constant betrayal of principles.
I am convinced that hardly any members read scriptures.
If they did they would see the huge Skew of Church VS Gospel!
@Watchman and Owyhee Cowboy, basically what’s going on here is that the gospel is being obscured, withdrawn, taken, because the Gentiles, That means the Ephramites that were gathered out of the Gentile nations where they had been scattered, that means the church today which is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, This mean YOU and your Ward and your Stake, is being sieved.
Pres Nelson is doing exactly what he is being told to do. What are you doing? Are you standing where the Lord has appointed you or self appointing yourself as the accuser of the brethren like lucifer himself? Pres Nelson, has come out and clearly told us the time to let the Prophets do our fighting for us and standing for us is over. That’s what I got anyway when he said that in the coming days we will NOT Survive Spiritually if we do not learn to lean upon revelation. I think he is literally telling us that he and the prophets will no longer be allowed to share with us everything we need to navigate the dangers ahead. Times up. You either have your oil or get it yesterday or you will not have time.
Only those who qualify to have the spirit will understand what is happening. Many Prophets have warned of this day and begged us to pay any price we must, to obtain and retain the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The prophets are not and have never “given in” to the various wicked practices of the world. The Saints have. The saints have been taught correct principles, and they have overall REFUSED to govern themselves BY THOSE PRINCIPLES. Just read Samuel chapter 8 really carefully and substitute almost any topic you want into that situation in place of the Israelites demands for a King against Gods express wishes.
After you read that chapter you should be able to clearly see that God will command the prophets to give us what we want even when it will prove to be our destruction. Not because they want, not because it is their idea to lead us astray, but to because God will respect our agency to destroy ourselves and others if we insist. Stop acting surprised by this.
This same thing has happened in every dispensation of time to the vast majority of the saints. They get comfortable and forget their God and start making their performances outwardly while inwardly they begin worshipping false idols of the world like money, power, fame, fashion, etc.
The question is asked “what is the benefit of watering down the gospel?” Two fold. The newer generation are taught at a level that is realistic and doable for them based on the legacy of corruption left by their forefathers. It isn’t right to hold them to a standard that they cannot realistically achieve given the culture and times they must deal with. Basically if the Lord can set the standard of 100% righteousness that it takes to qualify for the celestial kingdom. Then lets say that the amount of the gospel revealed in Josephs day was 1% righteousness with the balance of 99% to be handled by the enabling power of the atonement. But then you get to our day and we have perhaps .5% righteousness going on among the most dutiful of the saints. Does it make a lot of sense for a saint with .4% righteousness implemented in their lives to accuse and belittle the saints that have as of yet only achieved .3% righteousness? Seriously what’s the difference?
Watchman listed a laundry list of judgments he has made against the current leadership. Its like he doesn’t get that all our efforts are as filthy rags. Would you let a guy into your perfectly white and clean house that was covered from head to toe in mud except for 1% of him was clean. Lets say his pinky finer is clean. If the savior is willing to help this guy be cleansed enough to enter the kingdom after spending an entire life and only getting his pinky finger cleaned, then why cant you cut him some slack and leave the Lord to do the judging of his own people and prophets? You argument is like a guy covered in mud except for the first knuckle of his pinky finger, accusing another guy whos is entirely muddy except for the finger nail of his pinky finger being clean after all he could do to follow the commandments in his time and place. Its a ridiculous position to argue from. It will damn you if you don’t knock it off.
If you had the spirit you would realize why this is happening and why its needed. God is unchanging., But our wicked natures hasn’t moved much.
Owyhee Cowboy, you are absolutely right, I can’t help but think The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is an example of a great abominable church as talked about in the Book of Mormon.
https://faithfulsaints.com/satans-plan-of-spiritual-communism-revealed/
The church is being destroyed by Satan, this article says it wasn’t infiltrated in 1947, I don’t know if this is true, but it is definetly not true as of 2019. While the church isn’t as bad as other churches (it doesn’t support abortion, gay marriage, or transgenderism, yet) it is getting that way. I don’t think the church is salvageable in its current state, but I think a lot of its members are.
I cannot say I am one of these members, I seek guidance to affirm a belief in the gospel but I am plagued by constant doubts and anti-christian sentiments, but am open to a knowledge of the truth and due to spiritual feelings I have gotten I very much do believe god wants me in the church, though i do not know why. I respect you and LDS Watchman for speaking the truth. Keep on speaking the truth brothers, I appreciate it and i’m sure many others do as well.
LDS Watchman, you should start your own website man! You have a large understanding of these important issues and I think you could do a lot of good writing articles about this for members of the church to read, as well as for people who associate the doctrine with the church and may be inclined to reject the gospel bc of its association with the church.
James,
I get what you’re saying.
I have heard your argument a number of times.
Yes it’s true that the Lord allowed Israel to have a king and had Samuel annoint Saul and later David as King.
Having said that, having a king is not inherently wrong. In fact having a righteous king is better than having a democracy or group of judges according to the BOM. Also considering that Christ is a king through the loins of David, clearly this was the Lord’s will.
Believe it or not I’m not accusing the brethren. I’m asking the tough questions about why they don’t speak out against the wickedness in the church? Isn’t that their job?
Apparently you don’t think so, but what do the scriptures say?
You are right that it’s not my place to cast judgement on our prophets, seers, and revelators. However, given the complete lack of prophecy, seership, and revelation coming from these men, do I not have the right to ask why this is?
Shouldn’t I search the scriptures to see if this question is answered?
It seems that the Lord has answered this question.
Isaiah 28 speaks of the drunkards of Ephraim.
7 ¶ But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.
8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.
9 ¶ Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
13 But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken
There certainly is a place for the milk of the gospel for those who are new converts. But there’s also a place for the meat. If we only have the milk and then corrupt even that with false doctrine and practices we will fall and be broken.
Isaiah 28 also speaks of a tempest of destruction which is coming upon the church (Ephraim).
The prophets are erring through wine (wine of Babylon/worldliness). They stumble in vision. This is what the Lord says.
He says similar things in many places in the scriptures.
Nowhere does He say that it is okay for true prophets to teach false doctrine, make accommodations to the world, or stop denouncing wickedness. He does not say that it’s okay that the church has departed from what was originally restored.
I don’t hold myself up as a light. I’m a sinner. I am however trying to press forward, holding on to the iron rod (word of God) until I come to the tree of life and partake of the love of God.
The church has been falling deeper and deeper into apostasy from top to bottom for a long time now.
History proves this as do the scriptures. I wish it wasn’t so.
I wish that your theory about the brethren only doing what God tells them were true, but it isn’t.
It’s a tough pill to swallow, but it’s the truth.
I could quote you endless scriptures and statements from previous church leaders to prove that sadly the church is sick from the head (prophet) down to the feet (rank and file member). There is no soundness in it anymore.
Having said this, if you can provide some more scriptures defending your take or showing me to be in error, I’ll be happy to take a look.
Nephite Rationalist,
Thank you for the kind words. I actually do have my own blog.
[email protected]
I have a couple of articles on there. Nothing too exciting, just a few thoughts as I have time to write, which isn’t often. My thoughts on there are incomplete at best.
My last post has links to papers written by a scholar named Robert Smith. You might find his work interesting. He has done extensive research into the apostasy of the LDS church and what the scriptures say about it and what is coming next.
James, I have brought more truth to more people than Nelsen and Monson ever did.Have explained through handing out of books and dvds systematic evils, and iniquities of this world,not violations of outward sins.
I have not sugar coated the world in sophistry,and phatom
devils.
Not blamed the Marlboro man,Joe Camel and Jack Daniels
for secret combination to assuage members, and Spoke lullabies to the their conscience
Don’t confuse the Church with Gospel
In all the years of publishing advice in the various
church magazines.
Have they even tried to explain how our financial system works?(and being robbed)
Or have they given the same old make more out of less of your budget?
How many times have you heard them use the story of Amlickiah
as a example of modern day secret combinations?
Helaman’s fight with judges and lawyers,enforced priestcraft,and on and on!!
Why?? These guys are the problem, not the solution.
Would you have been one of Judas,an Peters groupies back in the day.
How did that turn out for them?
Nelson like the rest of the leaders recieve there marching orders from the
Lawyers,and marketing gooroo’s at C.O.B. That mystically gets vetted, and sanitized for public consumption.
How else would California prop 8 in 2008 turn into a total reversal
of helping the Homos( I assume you have seen the latest from
the Brethren getting behind hate crime legislation).
I know its a bitter pill ,but best to take it now as to be judged later for
ignoring warnings.
Nephite Racialist,
I believe the only group that fits the definition of abominable church
is Gov-Co………I.E. the Feds.Look it up
I know a lot of members think it is the Catholic Church……….
………..but how many rights did father O’Brian steal from you?
Did sister Mary force you to pay for neighbor 0% interest car loan/
Is Jerry Falwell coming to your house and putting a gun to your head
to pay for public educating his Kids??
How about Joe Camel?Did he force you to partake of his product?
Is Joe and The Bud man really a enemy of agency??
Who does force
you to pay at their temples of worship?(capitals)
Who really runs all the churches?………….Hint 501-c3
Owyhee Cowboy, you have a good point, and the government has taken the 1st amendment out of context in order to make the state the church, and forcing churches into submission through things such as the 1954 johnson amendment. The lds church, like the other corporate churches, is a part of this stucture, and cede ground to the satanic government and the evil culture it creates constantly. I have never blamed the marlboro man, though corporations are tied into this structure as well. The state may be the abominable church, you very well may have a point.
Though there was a time when the catholic church had very real political power (even asserting sovereignty over governments, look up the investiture controversy) and certainly would qualify under that, though it doesn’t have the power it used to.
@James G. I think you are absolutely right. I have felt the same way. I just feel sad, because I don’t know how to protect my children from false doctrines when the teachings against those worldly philosophies have been removed or covered up. I feel that it is somehow a protection for those who will not be taught certain things. They can’t be held accountable for rejecting things they have not been taught. I also feel (maybe I’m wrong) that the generation that had those teachings and then had them removed is being cursed by the removal of those teachings. It’s sad to me that I who didn’t embrace the femenism of the world get to partake of what feels to me like a curse.The things that are no longer taught were a protection against the philosophies of the world and make it easier to recognize truth and error and now those protections are gone or at least that’s how it feels to me. I don’t know how to teach my kids what they need to know in order for them to be prepared spiritually. The world’s philosophies have become so accepted by the mainstream membership of the church, that I as the parent have an extremely difficult time competing against the false doctrines that they are being taught in their classes at church and at the lds based private school that they attend. The leaders haven’t gone astray, it’s the general membership of the church who have rejected the truths declared by the prophets in favor of the teachings of the world. At this point if I try to teach the kids the truth, it’s me who appears to be teaching evil (in the eyes of the world) because the truth is contrary to what much of the membership believes. Who are my kids going to believe? Me or everyone else at church? I know the true doctrine of the church inclues the Patriarchal Order. It’s also hard when the family patriarch in our home (who I’m supposed to follow) is very liberal in his ideology and holds most politically correct philosophies as his own beliefs and to some degree rejects the patriarchal order in favor of popular femenists ideology so as no to appear sexist. I don’t know how to move forward in my efforts to raise up a righteous posterity. Any advise?
Interesting quote from Robert J. Mathews.
http://www.latterdaysaintwatchtower.com/
If the ordinances are changed does the Lord recognize them?
The Melchizedek Priesthood is a patriarchal priesthood. With the Restoration of the Melchizedek Priesthood and the sacred ordinances of that priesthood the patriarchal order is established.
As John A. Widtsoe has taught “Under Adam the ordinances of the Gospel were practiced, the righteous were organized into the Church, even as today, and the authority of the Priesthood was transmitted by Adam to his children, and by them to their children, so that the precious gift might not be lost.” “The Patriarchal order of this Priesthood was confirmed to be handed down from father to son, and rightly belongs to the literal descendants of the chosen seed, to whom the promises were made” (Priesthood and Church Government pg. 3).
Pres. Joseph F. Smith has written “The rights of fatherhood in all faithful, worthy men are paramount, and should be recognized by all other men holding positions or callings on the Priesthood. To make this idea plainer we will say as an example of our idea, we do not consider it proper in a Bishop or other officer to suggest that the son of such a man (the son himself not being the head of a family, but living with his father) be called upon a mission without first consulting the father. the Priesthood was originally exercised in the patriarchal order; those who held it exercised their power firstly by right of their fatherhood. It is so with the great Elohim. This first and strongest claim on our love, reverence and obedience is based on the fact that He is the Father, the Creator of all mankind” (Gospel Doctrine pg. 147).
John A. Widtsoe also wrote “The home, composed of father, mother and children, is the unit of all society. The human family is but the total of individual families or homes. The home is the ultimate unit of the Church. In the end as in the beginning the home will be the unit of progress and government.” “The family, a group of intelligent beings, must be organized, else chaos results. Just as there is but one Priesthood, but many offices in it, so every member of the family circle has equal claims upon the blessings of the home, but is assigned different tasks in connection with family life. There must be a presiding authority in the family. The father is the head or president, or spokesman of the family. This arrangement is of divine origin. It also conforms to physical and physiological laws under which humanity live. A home, as viewed by the Church, is composed of a family group, so organized as to be presided over by the father, under the authority and in the spirit of the Priesthood conferred upon him. The position which men occupy in the family, and especially those who hold the Melchizedek Priesthood, is one of first importance and should be clearly recognized and maintained in the order and with the authority which God conferred upon man in placing him at the head of his household” (Priesthood and Church Government pg. 80-81).
Bruce R. McConkie wrote “The Lord’s government is patriarchal in nature. The family unit is the center. In preexistence he was the Father of spirits.” “Those married in the temple in the new and everlasting covenant of marriage become inheritors of all the blessings of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and all the patriarchs and thereby enter into the patriarchal order. If the participating parties abide in the eternal marriage covenant, they shall reap the full blessings of patriarchal heirship in eternity where the patriarchal order will be the order of government and rule” (Mormon Doctrine pg. 559).
The prophet Joseph Smith taught concerning ordinances of the Melchizedek priesthood “It was the design of the councils of heaven before the world was, that the principles and laws of the priesthood should be predicated upon the gathering of the people in every age of the world. Jesus did everything to gather the people, and they would not be gathered, and He therefore poured out curses upon them. Ordinances instituted in the heavens before the foundation of the world, in the priesthood, for the salvation of men, are not to be altered or changed. All must be saved on the same principles” (Joseph Smith TPJS pg. 308).
Robert J. Mathews has said “We need to know that all things are governed by law. ‘Mine house is a house of order saith the Lord God. Not a house of confusion.’ The Lord has given priesthood laws that govern everything. …The Prophet Joseph Smith said, ‘The great thing for us to know is to comprehend what God did institute before the foundation of the world.’ Joseph Smith also said “that ordinances instituted in the heavens before the foundation of the world in the priesthood for the salvation of man are not to be altered or changed. All must be saved on the same principles.” Furthermore the Lord has said, that he will not accept on this earth any offerings or ordinances that were not appointed of the Father and the Son before the world was made” (D&C 132:10-11).
The changes made to the sacred ordinances of the Melchizedek priesthood by Russell Nelson at the beginning of the year 2019 dismantle the patriarchal order of the priesthood. The very safety mechanisms of the ordinances (endowment & sealing) to protect the patriarchal order have been removed. There’s now a glaring disconnect between the covenants made between man and woman and the patriarchal elements of the Melchizedek priesthood portions of the endowment. The changes made by Russell Nelson now make the patriarchal grip a farce. The whole structure surrounding the patriarchal grip are now gone. Which is a direct assault on the very atonement connected with that grip and order – the patriarchal order. Essentially the “everlasting covenant” that was restored is now broken. One can’t remove the patriarchal elements of the patriarchal priesthood and claim that it is part of the restoration. Removing the patriarchal elements is breaking the covenant. It’s in line with Isaiah’s lament “The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate; therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left” (Isaiah 24:5-6).