There is an argument made by wolves in members and apologists clothing that “The Church has no official position on the theory of evolution.”
However, if we look at how The Church describes doctrine, how it is established as well as distributed, another picture emerges. From the official Newsroom of The Church we read,
“With divine inspiration, the First Presidency (the prophet and his two counselors) and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (the second-highest governing body of the Church) counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications. This doctrine resides in the four “standard works” of scripture (the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith.”[emphasis added]
Additionally, in the Doctrine & Covenants section 107:21-38 & 124:26 we are also taught that the combined voice of either the First Presidency or the combined voice of the Twelve is how items of controversy are settled.
The First Presidency has given several official statements on evolution. The first we will refer to comes from 1909
“God created man in his own image.”
Inquiries arise from time to time respecting the attitude of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints upon questions which, though not vital from a
doctrinal standpoint, are closely connected with the fundamental principles of salvation. The latest inquiry of this kind that has reached us is in relation to the
origin of man. It is believed that a statement of the position held by the Church upon this important subject will be timely and productive of good.In presenting the statement that follows we are not conscious of putting forth anything essentially new; neither is it our desire so to do. Truth is what we
wish to present, and truth—eternal truth-is fundamentally old. A restatement of the original attitude of the Church relative to this matter is all that will be
attempted here. To tell the truth as God has revealed it, and commend it to the acceptance of those who need to conform their opinions thereto, is the sole
purpose of this presentation.“God created man in his own image, in the image of-God created he him; male and female created he them.” In these plain and pointed words the inspired
author of the book of Genesis made known to the world the truth concerning the origin of the human family. Moses, the prophet historian, “learned,” as we are
told, “in all the wisdom of the Egyptians,” when making this important announcement, was not voicing a mere opinion, a theory derived from his
researches into the occult lore of that ancient people. He was speaking as the mouthpiece of God, and his solemn declaration was for all time and for all people.
No subsequent revelator of the truth has contradicted the great leader and lawgiver of Israel. All who have since spoken by divine authority upon this theme
have confirmed his simple and sublime proclamation. Nor could it be otherwise.Truth has but one source, and all revelations from heaven are harmonious with each other. The omnipotent Creator, the maker of heaven and earth-had shown
unto Moses everything pertaining to this planet, including the facts relating to man’s origin, and the authoritative pronouncement of that mighty prophet and seer
to the house of Israel, and through Israel to the whole world, is couched in the simple, clause: “God created man in his own image” (Genesis 1: 27; Pearl of
Great Price-Book of Moses, 1: 27-41.)The creation was two-fold-firstly spiritual, secondly temporal. This truth, also, Moses plainly taught-much more plainly than it has come down to us in the
imperfect translations of the Bible that are now in use. Therein the fact of a spiritual creation, antedating the temporal creation, is strongly implied, but the
proof of it is not so clear and conclusive as in other records held by the Latter-day Saints to be of equal authority with the Jewish scriptures. The partial obscurity of
the latter upon the point in question is owing, no doubt, to the loss of those “plain and precious” parts of sacred writ, which, as the Book of Mormon informs us,
have been taken away from the Bible during its passage down the centuries (I Nephi 13: 24-29). Some of these missing parts the Prophet Joseph Smith
undertook to restore when he revised those scriptures by the spirit of revelation, the result being that more complete account of the creation which is found in the
book of Moses, previously cited. Note the following passages:And now, behold I say unto you, that these are the generations of the heaven and the earth, when they were created in the day that 1, the Lord God,
made the heaven and the earth, And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of
the field before it
For 1, the Lord God, created all things of which I have spoken, spiritually, before they were naturally upon the face of the earth. For 1, the Lord God, had not
caused it to rain upon the face of the earth.
And 1, the Lord God, had created all the children of men, and not yet a man to till the ground; for in heaven created I them, and there was not yet flesh
upon the earth, neither in the water, neither in the air.
But 1, the Lord God, spake, and there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
And I, the Lord God, formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul, the first
flesh upon the earth, the first man also.
Nevertheless, all things were before created, but spiritually were they created and made, according to my word. (Pearl of Great Price-Book of Moses, 3:
4-7. See also chapters 1 and 2, and compare with Genesis I and 2).These two points being established, namely, the creation of man in the image of God and the two-fold character of the creation, let us now inquire: What
was the form of man, in the spirit and in the body, as originally created? In a general way the answer is given in the words chosen as the text of this treatise.“God created man in his own image. It is more explicitly rendered in the Book of Mormon thus: “All men were created in the beginning after mine own image
(Ether 3: 15). It is the Father who is speaking. If, therefore, we can ascertain the form of the “Father of spirits,” “The God of the spirits of all flesh,” we shall be
able to discover the form of the original man.Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is “the express image” of His Father’s person (Hebrews 1: 3). He walked the earth as a human being, as a perfect man, and said,
in answer to a question put to Him: “He that hath seen me hath seen the Father” (John 14: 9). This alone ought to solve the problem to the satisfaction of every
thoughtful, reverent mind. The conclusion is irresistible, that if the Son of God be the express image (that is, likeness) of His Father’s person, then His Father is in
the form of man; for that was the form of the Son of God, not only during His mortal life, but before His mortal birth, and after His resurrection. It was in this
form that the Father and the Son, as two personages, appeared to Joseph Smith, when, as a boy of fourteen years, he received his first vision. Then if God made
man-the first man-in His own image and likeness, he must have made him like unto Christ, and consequently like unto men of Christ’s time and of the present
day. That man was made in the image of Christ, is positively stated in the Book of Moses: “And 1, God, said unto mine Only Begotten, which was with me from the
beginning, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and it was so. * * * * And I, God, created man in mine own image, in the image of mine Only
Begotten created I him, male and female created I them” (2: 26, 27).The Father of Jesus is our Father also. Jesus Himself taught this truth, when He instructed His disciples how to pray: “Our Father which art in heaven,”
etc. Jesus, however, is the first born among all the sons of God-the first begotten in the spirit, and the only begotten in the flesh. He is our elder brother, and we,
like Him, are in the image of God. All men and women are in the similitude of the universal Father and Mother, and are literally the sons and daughters of Deity.
“God created man in His own image.” This is just as true of the spirit as it is of the body, which is only the clothing of the spirit, its complement; the two
together constituting the soul. The spirit of man is in the form of man, and the spirits of all creatures are in the likeness of their bodies. This was plainly taught
by the Prophet Joseph Smith (Doctrine and Covenants, 77: 2).Here is further evidence of the fact. More than seven hundred years before Moses was shown the things pertaining to this earth, another great prophet, known
to us as the brother of Jared, was similarly favored by the Lord. He was even permitted to behold the spirit-body of the foreordained Savior, prior to His
incarnation; and so like the body of a man was His spirit in form and appearance, that the prophet thought he was gazing upon a being of flesh and blood. He first
saw the finger and then the entire body of the Lord-all in the spirit. The Book of Mormon says of this wonderful manifestation:And it came to pass that when the brother of Jared had said these words, behold, the Lord stretched forth His hand and touched the stones one by one with
His finger; and the veil was taken from off the eyes of the brother of Jared, and he saw the finger of the Lord; and it was as the finger of a man, like unto flesh and
blood; and the brother of Jared fell down before the Lord, for he was struck with fear.And the Lord saw that the brother of Jared had fallen to the earth; and the
Lord said unto him, Arise, why hast thou fallen?
And he saith unto the Lord, I saw the finger of the Lord, and feared lest he should smite me for I knew not that the Lord had flesh and blood.
And the Lord said unto him, Because of thy faith thou hast seen that I shall take upon me flesh and blood; and never has man come before me with such
exceeding faith as thou hast; for were it not so, ye could not have seen my finger.
Sawest thou more than this?
And he answered, Nay, Lord, show thyself unto me.
And the Lord said unto him, Believest thou the works which I Shall speak?
And he answered, Yea, Lord, I know that thou speakest the truth, for thou art a God of truth and canst not lie.
And when he had said these words, behold, the Lord showed himself unto him, and said, Because thou knowest these things ye are redeemed from the fall;
therefore ye are brought back into my presence; therefore I show myself unto you.
Behold, I am He who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ, I am the Father and the Son. In me
shall all mankind have light, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.
And never have I showed myself unto man whom I have created, for never hath man believed in me as thou hast. Seest thou that ye are created after mine
own image? Yea, even all men were created in the beginning after mine own image.
Behold, this body, which ye now behold, is the body of my spirit, and man have I created after the body of my spirit; and even as I appear unto thee to be in
the spirit, will I appear unto my people in the flesh” (Ether, 3: 6-16).What more is needed to convince us that man, both in spirit and in body, is the image and likeness of God, and that God Himself is in the form of man?
When the divine Being whose spirit-body the brother of Jared beheld, took upon Him flesh and blood, He appeared as a man, having “body, parts and
passions,” like other men, though vastly superior to all others, because He was God, even the Son of God, the Word made flesh: in Him “dwelt the fulness of the
Godhead bodily.” And why should He not appear as a man? That was the form of His spirit, and it must needs have an appropriate covering, a suitable tabernacle.
He came into the world as He had promised to come (111 Nephi, 1: 13), taking an infant tabernacle, and developing it gradually to the fulness of His spirit stature.
He came as man had been coming for ages, and as man has continued to come ever since. Jesus, however, as shown, was the only begotten of God in the flesh.Adam our great progenitor, “the first man,” was, like Christ, a pre-existent spirit, and like Christ he took upon him an appropriate body, the body of a man,
and so became a “living soul.” The doctrine of the pre-existence, –revealed so plainly, particularly in latter days, pours a wonderful flood of light upon the
otherwise mysterious problem of man’s origin. It shows that man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of heavenly parents, and reared to maturity in the eternal
mansions of the Father, prior to coming upon the earth in a temporal body to undergo an experience in mortality. It teaches that all men existed in the spirit
before any man existed in the flesh, and that all who have inhabited the earth since Adam have taken bodies and become souls in like manner.It is held by some that Adam was not the first man upon this earth, and that the original human being was a development from lower orders of the animal
creation. These, however, are the theories of men. The word of the Lord declares that Adam was “the first man of all men” (Moses 1: 34), and we are therefore in
duty bound to regard him as the primal parent of our race. It was shown to the brother of Jared that all men were created in the beginning after the image of God;
and whether we take this to mean the spirit or the body, or both, it commits us to the same conclusion: Man began life as a human being, in the likeness of our
heavenly Father.True it is that the body of man enters upon its career as a tiny germ or embryo, which becomes an infant, quickened at a certain stage by the spirit whose
tabernacle it is, and the child, after being born, develops into a man. There is nothing in this, however, to indicate that the original man, the first of our race,
began life as anything less than a man, or less than the human germ or embryo that becomes a man.Man, by searching, cannot find out God. Never, unaided, will he discover the truth about the beginning of human life. The Lord must reveal Himself, or
remain unrevealed; and the same is true of the facts relating to the origin of Adam’s race–God alone can reveal them. Some of these facts, however, are
already known, and what has been made known it is our duty to receive and retain.The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, basing its belief on divine revelation, ancient and modem, proclaims man to be the direct and lineal
offspring of Deity. God Himself is an exalted man, perfected, enthroned, and supreme. By His almighty power He organized the earth, and all that it contains,
from spirit and element, which exist co-eternally with Himself. He formed every plant that grows, and every animal that breathes, each after its own kind,
spiritually and temporally-” that which is spiritual being in the likeness of that which is temporal, and that which is temporal in the likeness of that which is
spiritual.” He made the tadpole and the ape, the lion and the elephant; but He did not make them in His own image, nor endow them with Godlike reason and
intelligence. Nevertheless, the whole animal creation will be perfected and perpetuated in the Hereafter, each class in its “distinct order or sphere,” and will
enjoy “eternal felicity.” That fact has been made plain in this dispensation (Doctrine and Covenants 77: 3).Man is the child of God, formed in the divine image and endowed with divine attributes, and even as the infant son of an earthly father and mother is
capable in due time of becoming a man, so the undeveloped offspring of celestial parentage is capable, by experience through ages and aeons, of evolving into a
God.
JOSEPH F. SMITH,
JOHN R. WINDER,
ANTHON H. LUND,
First Presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Improvement Era 13:1
In September of 1925, the First Presidency released another statement on the Church’s official position on evolution which has not been retracted by the same authority since. The statement reads,
“God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”
In these plain and pointed words the inspired author of the book of Genesis made known to the world the truth concerning the origin of the human
family. Moses, the prophet-historian, who was “learned” we are told, “in all the wisdom of the Egyptians,” when making this important announcement, was not
voicing a mere opinion. He was speaking as the mouthpiece of God, and his solemn declaration was for all time and for all people. No subsequent revelator of
the truth has contradicted the great leader and law-giver of Israel. All who have since spoken by divine authority upon this theme have confirmed his simple and
sublime proclamation. Nor could it be otherwise. Truth has but one source, and all revelations from heaven are harmonious one with the other.Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is “the express image” of his Father’s person (Hebrews 1:3). He walked the earth as a human being, as a perfect man, and said,
in answer to a question put to him: “He that hath seen me hath seen the Father” (John 14:9). This alone ought to solve the problem to the satisfaction of every
thoughtful, reverent mind. It was in this form that the Father and the Son, as two distinct personages, appeared to Joseph Smith, when, as a boy of fourteen years,
he received his first vision.The Father of Jesus Christ is our Father also. Jesus himself taught this truth, when he instructed his disciples how to pray: “Our Father which art in
heaven,” etc. Jesus, however, is the first born among all the sons of God-the first begotten in the spirit, and the only begotten in the flesh. He is our elder brother,
and we, like him, are in the image of God. All men and women are in the similitude of the universal Father and Mother, and are literally sons and daughters
of Deity.Adam, our great progenitor, “the first man,” was, like Christ, a pre-existent spirit, and, like Christ, he took upon him an appropriate body, the body of a man,
and so became a “living soul.” The doctrine of pre-existence pours wonderful flood of light upon the otherwise mysterious problem of man’s origin. It shows
that man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of heavenly parents, and reared to maturity in the eternal mansions of the Father, prior to coming upon the earth in a
temporal body to undergo an experience in mortality.The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, basing its belief on divine revelation, ancient and modem, proclaims man to be the direct and lineal
offspring of Deity. By his Almighty power God organized the earth, and all that it contains, from spirit and element, which exist co-eternally with himself.Man is the child of God, formed in the divine image and endowed with divine attributes, and even as the infant son of an earthly father and mother is
capable in due time of becoming a man, so the undeveloped offspring of celestial parentage is capable, by experience through ages and aeons, of evolving into a God.HEBER J. GRANT,
ANTHONY W. WINS,
CHARLES W. NIBLEY,
First Presidency.Improvement Era 28:11
With two official statements from the First Presidency of The Church, do we really need to rely on so called experts that deny the order of The Church and the revealed word of God?
You can get the official BYU packet on evolution that students used to receive as well as thousands of other rare and hard to find documents relating to the restored gospel in our Mormon Chronicle Store
But but but we made so many models and drawings of fictitious creatures we said were evolving humans that it must be true. Not
So, does the Church have an official position or not. From what has been posted, I cannot tell.
It seems to me, that a cultural doctrine has been allowed to flourish inside the Church body, that man did NOT evolve, as taught by science, but was created by God, but that evolution is still largely a true and valuable doctrine as every creature BUT man did evolve as science teaches. But this is not true. Nothing evolved. I had to learn this for myself without the aid of the scriptures by doing research. I was brought back to the gospel by seeking these things out for myself for some 20 years, without any gospel at all. There is no merit whatsoever to the theory of Darwinian Evolution or any ‘evolution’ theory. The theory of evolution has it’s roots in occult paganism, and is actually very old (and completely spurious). The fact that the leaders of the Church do not speak more strongly or with any authority on this matter is a huge problem. Many thousands of people have fallen away over this one issue alone. The Church seems content to take a backseat to ‘science’ where science forwards an opinion on some matter. The same is true for anthropology and archaeology, especially with regards to North America. We are in a situation now where the vast majority of believing Church members are of two minds on a great number of subjects. In my opinion, Science is one of the great idols of our time, the other being Social Justice. Both these subjects as they are currently defined and practiced by modern society, are almost completely useless in providing any truth to the world, and are the primary idols that lead people into the great and spacious building.
A prominent evolutionist made that very statement in his defense of Evolution.
“The most devastating thing though that biology did to Christianity was the discovery of biological evolution. Now that we know that Adam and Eve never were real people the central myth of Christianity is destroyed. If there never was an Adam and Eve there never was an original sin. If there never was an original sin there is no need of salvation. If there is no need of salvation there is no need of a savior. And I submit that puts Jesus, historical or otherwise, into the ranks of the unemployed. I think that evolution is absolutely the death knell of Christianity.” Frank Zindler, American atheist, in a debate with William Craig, Atheism vs. Christianity video, Zondervan, 1996
1 Cor 15:22 As in Adam all die even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
This scripture is not limited – it is all inclusive. You cannot believe in Evolution and in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It cannot be done.
Science even argues against evolution in every aspect. This is becoming more clear now as there are no transitional fossils and we are now finding soft tissue in 100 million year old dinosaurs.
How can anyone say that the Church can’t take a stand? It certainly can and by the many pronouncements by the leaders of the Church and scripture all declare that there was no evolution because the Gospel of Jesus Christ make it impossible. The Gospel and evolution cannot co-exist.
We should all agree that the Standard Works are the standard that we follow. Not the interpretation nor pronouncements of man. A number of people have used a statement in the New Era that the Church takes no position. They point to an anonymous person making the statement. This is certainly not an official pronouncement. I would argue that the Church cannot take a neutral position on this issue because of the Standard Works or more specifically revelation from God argues against evolution.
The Standard Works are clear on this issue. If you claim evolution was the mechanism that God used to create both man and animals then you are violating the very core or essence of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The scriptures are clear, Adam was not only the first man (Moses 3:7) to live on the earth, but he was also the first living breathing being on the earth. It was Adam who introduced death into the earth. There was no death before Adam as a result of the Fall. That means everything. The mythical ancestry of Adam could not die, and neither could any of the animals. This negates completely evolution. It cannot exist with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The entire reason for Jesus Christ was to reverse the sin of Adam through the great Atonement. If Adam was a myth or the Fall, then of course Jesus Christ was a myth and the entire Gospel of Jesus Christ is of no effect.
Thank you for your great article about this.
By the way, the FAIR professors of BYU accept evolution. Around 75% of the grads from BYU now accept it as fact. Would someone please get a hold of them and have them respond to your great little article.
I echo Ira’s remarks.
Evolution is a doctrine of Satan which destroyed faith in God and in the atonement of Jesus Christ.
There is no scientific evidence whatsoever for evolution.
It is nothing more than a theory of man that so-called scientists attempt to support with half-truths and misrepresentations.
Why BYU teaches evolution is beyond me.
Why the brethren do not unequivocally denounce evolution for the Satanic doctrine that it is is also beyond me.
You would think true prophets of God would denounce the doctrines of Satan and instruct the church’s universities to teach the true science of creationism, which can actually be supported by true science.
The truth sets us free. False teachings bind us down and destroy us.
The scripture about the blind leading the blind and both falling into the ditch seems appropriate.
As we’ve shown, the prophets have denounced it. The masses continue to fight them on it, so they let the previous word stand without further comment
Their silence on the matter in recent decades could be as you suggest, but it could also very well be that they are leaving the possibility open of evolution being used in the creation.
It should not be up to the students at BYU, or any member of the church for that matter, to have to dig up old quotes on the evolution, because the current leaders are silent on the matter.
Is it not the job of the watchmen on the tower to continue to sound the warning voice, not remain silent as the enemy breaks down the gate and storms the city, hoping that the inhabitants of the city will remember the long forgotten warning given long ago?
Why have watchmen on the tower at all if they no longer sound the warning voice?
Then we’d complain that they just repeat the same thing over and over. Israelites are never happy
What about the millions of new members who have either been born into the church or baptized since the last time the brethren even hinted that evolution is a false doctrine of Satan?
Do they not get to hear the warning even once?
Is it asking too much for the brethren to at least remind us every once and a while that evolution was not in any way used in the creation?
The most recent church publication addressing evolution states that the church has no official position on evolution. It then references a talk by Elder Holland in a recent conference in which he could have renounced evolution, but instead left the door open for it.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/new-era/2016/10/to-the-point/what-does-the-church-believe-about-evolution
Elder Holland said the following about the creation of Adam and Eve…
“I do not know the details of what happened on this planet before that, but I do know these two were created under the divine hand of God, that for a time they lived alone in a paradisiacal setting where there was neither human death nor future family, and that through a sequence of choices they transgressed a commandment of God which required that they leave their garden setting but which allowed them to have children before facing physical death.”
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2015/04/where-justice-love-and-mercy-meet
Is it asking too much for Elder Holland to have stated that Adam and Eve did not evolve from some lower species and that they were literally the first humans on this planet instead of saying that he doesn’t know what happened on this planet before Adam and Eve?
Thats because Holland and the rest of the cadre, candy asses, are not
fit to loosen Abinadai’s cowboy boots.
I have to agree with Matthias here. The scriptures say that our leaders should constantly be stirring up our memories with warnings of fire and brimstone. It says a lot that you had to go back to 1925 to find a Church leader speaking openly against evolution. Is there nothing more recent? I’m sure for many decades that was sufficient as Christians all over the world were still rejecting this idea, but things have changed. I was in high school in SLC in the 90’s. We were never taught that evolution was a false doctrine. At best, we were taught that man did not evolve but other than that science has it right. As with many things what we’re forced to learn in school directly contradicts the Standard Works, and that’s as true now for BYU as anywhere else.
This is interesting. I do believe in the doctrine of evolution ;) but not the way that we are taught it.
It is obvious that things adapt and evolve in nature. We can watch that happen in our own lifetime on earth. Even humans bodies have been changing (hips getting smaller, etc.) its not hard to imagine that left alone for eons of time that a creature would change enough that it would be a new one.
So I believe this:
– Adam and Eve were the first human man and woman (just like the scriptures say).
– god placed other similar beings on the earth way beforehand to prepare this earth to be habitable for us humans. It needed ‘homo’ species to till the ground and use the animals and generally just prepare nature for when Adam and Eve would be placed here.
– those beings eventually died out, but there is still lingering dna proof that they did mix with humans. (Read high nibleys article “before Adam”)
-the human species DID evolve from an extremely ancient common ancestor of the other similar species like apes etc, but it was on a planet a long time ago in a galaxy far away.
– we know there has always been gods, so that means before humans evolved, there had to be other intelligent species that had previously evolved into gods and then discovered humans and aided them in their journey and now that’s what our god does for us.
– that’s why it’s significant that we are made in the image our our god, because we aren’t made in he image of another species of god.
-god is not a magician.
Heretical? ;)
My sincere questions for people who don’t believe in evolution:
1: did god just place all those fossils and bones here to trick us?
2: does god have to place some sort of artificial limit on creatures so they can’t adapt ‘too much’? Where is that line??
Eliza, I feel like I am qualified to answer your question because I am a geologist. The fossil record was created by Noah’s flood about 5,000 years ago. The earth is not billions of years old. It is circular thinking used by evolutionary geologists to date the rocks. The fossils date the rocks and the rocks date the fossils. This is all not true and the earth is young.
Adam was the first Man and the first of all creatures on the face of the earth (Moses 3:7). Adam introduced death into the earth. Before Adam there was no death because the earth was in a Terrestrial state. Evolution is used to destroy Christianity and the Church.
There seems to be confusion as to what evolution is. To make it simple there is natural selection which is called micro-evolution. There is also changes from one kind of creature to a completely different one which is called macro-evolution. Micro-evolution is true. This is what Darwin found with his observation of the finch. But what isn’t true is a fish somehow spouting legs and walking up on land to become a dinosaur.
Micro-evolution is about the DNA losing information through natural selection. This is what natural selection does is lose information. What Macro-evolution says is that through mutation the DNA gains information. Adding legs to fish is gaining information that was not coded into the DNA. Genetics is now finding as it advances that this is a real problem that the mutations aren’t appearing as they predict. It simply doesn’t work.
The fossil record shows that this is the case. There are virtually no transitional forms between the different kinds in the fossil record. The fossils appear in the record without transitional forms. This is consistent from a creationist point of view. Darwin predicted there would be billions of transitional forms found. Not so! Even the ones that they have found which are very few are even controversial.
Scientists are now finding soft tissue in fossil dinosaur bones that are millions of years old. This has become a real crises for the evolutionist because this is impossible. They are at a lose to explain it and simply ignore it. Creationists are finding many of these now in supposedly 100 million year old bones. Soft tissue should not be found because it simply cannot survive a long period of time. This points to the fact that the dinosaurs were buried in Noah’s flood and are not millions of years old.
There is so much evidence now for Noah’s flood and a young earth that I don’t see how any Christian or member of the Church should accept evolution which is nothing more than Godless atheism.
The Protestant Christians are far ahead of the Church on this issue and they are doing what BYU should be doing. Looking at the science of creation from a biblical point of view instead of accepting the secular worldly and inaccurate evolutionary theories. There is plenty of good science debunking evolution now. And any member of the Church ought to do the work of finding and studying what has been found. The scriptures are indeed true and not as many would want you believe that they are a collection of myths.
Ira
It’s
Thank you for your reaponse. My grandfather is a well known biologist so I have some access to the topic as well.
I understand the difference between micro and macro evolution. Saying a fish just sprouts legs is a little disingenuous :)
Yes I am aware of that theory. I do not accept the ‘universal model’ or whatever Rod Meldrum calls it. I do happen to be a neocatastrophist though which is another interesting topic…. hah
My other question wasn’t answered, does god place some artificial limit on “adaptations” so an animal doesn’t go too far?
In my opinion, not believing in evolution just because the Bible doesn’t specifically lay it out is akin to believing in a flat earth.
I also wanted to add that I believe the reason we haven’t found every transition link in the fossil record is because god dropped many of them off, but he chose the right kinds so hat we would notice hey are similar and did evolve. I don’t think he wanted to wait millions and trillions of years for this world to be ready for people.
There was a fairly recent journal about octopi being placed here by ‘extraterrestrials’ since they don’t fit elsewhere. I agree with that.
Eliza, You believe in extraterrestrials and you accuse me of believing in Flat Earth? You may want to think about that one a little bit more.
The fossil record is pretty darn complete. I know the evolutionist want to make excuses for the reason they can’t find transitional forms. The reason they can’t is because evolution is a lie. It is not supported in the fossil record and it has never been observed. You will not be able to provide me with even one example of changes in kinds as a result of evolution. It isn’t a viable theory.
I’ve stood on the contact between the Cambrian which has billions upon billions of fossils and the Pre-Cambrian which literally has none. The Cambrian explosion is a real problem for the evolutionists and even Steve Gould the famed atheist and evolutionist thought it was a problem for them.
The only reason to believe in evolution is to discredit and destroy Christianity and the LDS Church. I do not know if you are a Christian or not. If you are then you will have to explain to me why you do not believe in the Fall of Adam.
Why don’t you believe in scripture? Why don’t you believe in the prophets of God? These are all questions that I require of you. I would ask the same question of any professor at BYU as well. The scriptures are clear on this subject that Adam was the first Man and the first of all creation of all breathing creatures.
As far as your other question goes it is rooted in evolution which is a lie. So what you are saying is God places limits on adaptation or evolution? What kind of nonsense is that. You ether believe in evolution and reject Christianity or you don’t. You can’t have it both ways. I reject the idea that God had placed any limits. There is no evolution, but there is natural selection. There is micro-evolution of course but not the great changes and deep time you require.
Come-on back to the fold Eliza. You don’t need to believe in this Satanist doctrine. If you want good science on the subject there are plenty of resources available in the Christian community. I like ICR.org which has done a great job of explaining the evolutionary lie.
Don’t know much about the Universal Model. I do believe in Noah’s flood and a young earth. I’ve believed that for over 40 years. The model works far better than the old earth or evolution.
Good luck, Ira
Well god is extra terrestrial isn’t he? And isn’t he the one who placed life here?
In fact, I’m a Mormon and you can have it both ways, because I do believe God is an evolutionist and scientist. In fact, I will be so bold as to say that my ‘testimony’ of the principle of macro evolution is as real as my testimony of any other plain and simple truth.
I don’t understand how you can believe that micro evolutions exist, but that they don’t eventually become a ‘macro’ evolution. Micro evolution is macro evolution, you’re just looking at one ‘frame’ in the movie.
I don’t believe I am denying the prophets. But I’m sure we could all pick out plenty of things particular prophets said that we disagreed with.
Telling me I am lost is quite the claim.
And Adam was not the first “breathing creation”, not even according to scripture.
I do believe that Joseph said a thing or two about how it is better to believe in truth wherever it comes from, than to be damned for believing too little. I would not like to be so close minded that attempting to acquire new and exciting information is as hard a splitting hemlock knots with a corn-dodger.
Ultimately, I don’t care what the truth is about anything. As long as I have the truth, I will align my will with it.
Can you say that?
Eliza, Fascinating! Thank you for the information. It is very enlightening to talk to someone one like you. Your interpretation of scripture is quite unique to say the least. It pretty well conforms to others I have talked to about this subject.
What I like about what you’ve said is that you have a testimony of Macro-Evolution. Really! There is absolutely no evidence of it and yet you accept it. As I’ve pointed out the fossil record and modern science has not been able to prove evolution. So you accept it on faith. This is a religion for you and you’ve confirmed it. Thank you for that.
I will still say that you reject the clear written word in the scriptures on this subject. I guess we’ll have to disagree on interpretation.
Micro and Macro are two different things. Let me explain it to you so that you might have an understanding. God created the different “Kinds” of creatures and placed them here on earth. Adam was the first person created. He named the animals as they were brought to him in the Garden of Eden. There was no death of any animals before the Fall of Adam. By accepting evolution you deny is the Fall of Adam. No you cannot have it both ways without ignoring or denying the scriptures on this subject. Good luck trying to explain how that is possible. You haven’t done it yet.
Micro-Evolution as I explained to you before is the variations within Kinds. Kinds is a term the scripture uses and is what we would term Family. Noah brought Family of animals onto the ark. Since the time of the flood the different families have changed within their “kinds” to the different species we have today. The dog for example is related to the Gray wolf. They are all Canine however. There has been no Macro-evolution between Canine and any other family of animals. Never been seen in the fossil record and has never been observed in science.
Macro-evolution is all faith and not science at all. Thanks for confirming that.
Good luck buddy
Ira
I do not take it on faith, I believe there is an abundance of good evidence, you just don’t agree that it is good evidence.
All I can say is that I completely disagree with almost everything you’ve said. It is obvious that no amount of evidence I garnish will convince you, and no amount of evidence you garnish will convince me.
That’s fine. :) I still have my kids to teach.
– Eliza
Although one might desire it, the Church isn’t meant to be a repository of truth on every topic of interest, including on evolution. The Church has its purview, and we have our intelligence, discernment, and agency. We are not to be commanded in all things.
The scriptures also have their purview. They contain what they contain, and we can rely on them accordingly. At least in mortality, the scriptures do not contain every truth that may be known or will yet be revealed or discovered. Although truths will never contradict, some truths have no connection to scripture. To rely on what is in the scriptures is simultaneously safe and insufficient. The Holy Ghost can testify of or reveal a truth regardless of whether it’s in or may be connected to scripture. Wresting the scriptures will condemn us, including to infer that they prove or disprove evolution.
And BYU also has its purview, which seems to be to fit into the world, such as through accreditation. This may be harmless in some fields. But, sadly, in other fields, such as in certain sciences, as well as history and economics, vital facts are not taught, and pernicious errors of the mainstream and officialdom are perpetuated, not unlike in most other universities. If BYU more fully embraced seeking truth and correcting errors, then it would better reflect its namesake.
Truth cannot be “retracted.” Truth is absolute and independent. We either choose to conform to truth or reject it. The sad reality is that people like to mix truth with error.
Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel philosophically taught a concept that stems from Judaism. Hegel taught that you can take a Thesis on one hand and then take its opposite Anti-Thesis on the other hand and blend them into a Synthesis. This philosophy has crept into the Church wherein we have the revealed will of the Lord concerning creation which stands on one hand and then we have the world’s false belief of evolution on the other hand and then we find members of the Church blending the two together to create a synthesis – truth mixed with error. This is how the gospel of Jesus Christ has been nullified in past dispensations and how the same philosophy is nullifying the gospel in our day. If we understand this philosophical concept we can root it out from our midst and protect and preserve the truth.
Hats off to the Mormon Chronicle for not mixing truth with error. Good post. Thanks
I wanted to make one more comment about the teaching of evolution at BYU. This is not just directed just at Eliza. He of course fulfills the scripture I will quote, but we all should be mindful of what the prophets have said anciently as well as today.
I’ve been a student of the scriptures for many years. Years ago I thought many scriptures were directed to the world at large rather than the Church. I have since changed that view. It seems that most of the scriptures are aimed right at the Church. Particularly when they specifically say the Last Days.
The apostle Peter was not only a great apostle but a prophet of God. He believed in Noah’s flood. It was the flood of Noah that deposited the fossil record that we see today. There was no evolution. Peter prophesied about the Church in the last days. This prophecy is found in 2 Peter 3:2-6.
2 Peter 3:2-6
2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
Vs 2 Is an affirmation that the holy prophets and apostles are speaking these words.
vs 3 Tells us that there will be scoffers in the last days. The next few verse will tell us what they scoff at.
Vs 4-6 Tells us they scoff at the idea of the 2nd coming. They believe the world has and will continue as it is now. In other words they believe in uniformatarism. There was no Noah’s flood and Adam and Eve. The earth slowly evolved the different kinds until here we are today.
These people are scoffers. They make fun of those of us who don’t believe in that they term real science. Who wants to believe all the nonsense and Sunday school stuff taught in the bible. That is just like believing in a flat earth as Eliza says. We are fools to think such a thing. They have real scientists on their side that tell them that evolution is true. They provide no evidence of it, and the evidence they do point to is always controversial.
But here is a prophecy that is fulfilled by the members of the Church and particularly the professors at BYU today. They should know better. If they would study real science they will find that there was a flood and all human kind can be traces back to Noah and Adam. There was no evolution of any kind. This is a lie and is Satan’s philosophy.
This scripture should be printed off and nailed to every single professors door at BYU that teaches this Godless, atheistic philosophy. They have poisoned the minds of the members of the Church. The fruits of that poisoning are now showing up in the great inactivity of young people in the Church today.
Ira
Eliza, the book of Moses says Adam was the first man on the Earth and the first flesh also. If you pay careful attention to the second creation account in Moses ( the physical not spiritual creation) you will see that Adam was placed on the physical earth before any birds, animals, or sea life. He was literally the FIRST FLESH on the earth. He couldn’t have evolved from some other creature if there was NO FLESH on the earth before him.